Posts by Duran

187

Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!

by BoogerMan in

it-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".

it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.

" (galatians 2:1-10).

Duran

As I previously stated the First World Power according to Dan. 2 was Babylon.

The statement made by me was:

Babylon was the 3rd world power during that 70-year period and then in 539 the Medes and Persians became the 4th world power.

To which you replied:

Incorrect for according to Daniel the first World Power was Babylon followed by Medo-Persia.

I showed you what John said about there being 8 kings and I showed you the WTS says about all 8 world powers.

Daniel addresses the said kings, but he focusses starting from the 3rd king Babylon down to the 8th king.

Do you disagree that Egypt and Assyria were each world powers prior to Babylon?

_______

Babylon's time as a World Power ended with its overthrow in 539 BCE by the Medo-Persian Empire.

Yes! Very good scholar, you are making progress with such statement.

So, knowing that Babylon ceased being the world power in 539 and that Medo-Persian became the world power at that time when Babylon was overthrown, the question is when did Babylon become the world power?

The answer is after Assiya was overthrown. Assiya was the world power before Babylon and all nations were under subjection to Assiya, including Babylon. Then with the overthrow of Assiya, Babylon became the world power, and ALL nations were in subjection to Babylon until it was overthrown by Medo-Persian in 539.

Jeremiah 25:11,12 speaks to this period for Babylon and the nations, stating that ALL nations would have to serve Babylon 70 years, and when THOSE 70 years were fulfilled, Babylon would then come to its end, which we know it did in 539 when Medo-Persian overthrew them.

Serving Babylon had nothing to do with being taken captive there. All nations served Babylon by being under subjection to them, during the time it was a world power. (609-539) Having to be killed or taken captive to Babylon was only based on refusing to serve.

[ 11 And all this land must become a devastated place, an object of astonishment, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years]

[ 6 And now I have given all these lands into the hand of my servant King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon; even the wild beasts of the field I have given him to serve him. 7 All the nations will serve him and his son and his grandson until the time for his own land comes, 8If any nation or kingdom refuses to serve King Neb·u·chad·nezʹzar of Babylon and refuses to put its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, I will punish that nation with the sword, with famine, and with pestilence,’ declares Jehovah, ‘until I have finished them off by his hand.’9 Therefore, do not listen to your prophets, your diviners, your dreamers, your magicians, and your sorcerers, who are saying to you: “You will not serve the king of Babylon.” 10 For they are prophesying lies to you, so that you will be taken far away from your land and I will disperse you and you will perish.11 But the nation that brings its neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon and serves him, I will allow to remain on its land,’ declares Jehovah, ‘to cultivate it and dwell in it.]

[12 And it must occur that when seventy years have been fulfilled I shall call to account against the king of Babylon and against that nation,’ is the utterance of Jehovah, ‘their error, even against the land of the Chal·deʹans, and I will make it desolate wastes to time indefinite.]

187

Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!

by BoogerMan in

it-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".

it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.

" (galatians 2:1-10).

Duran

Incorrect for according to Daniel the first World Power was Babylon followed by Medo-Persia.

LOL!

What about according to John and your beloved WTS...

[w85 10/1 - In Bible history, five major empires flourished, oppressed God’s people, and then fell before John’s day: Egypt, Assyria, Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece. When John was alive, the Roman empire was in power. Centuries after John’s death, the Roman empire passed from the scene as the dominant world power and was eventually replaced by the British empire. Soon this empire’s western colonies gained independence and came to act closely with Britain to form the Anglo-American world power. This is the “king” that had “not yet arrived” in John’s day. What was the relationship between the beast that John saw and the seven empires represented by its heads? “It is also itself an eighth king, but springs from the seven.” Revelation 17:9-11]

1 Egypt, 2 Assyria, 3 Babylon, 4 Medo-Persia, 5 Greece, 6 Rome, 7 Anglo-American, 8 UN

Regardless, Babylon's time as a world power ended in 539 when it was defeated by Medo-Persia. That being the case and sense it was said that the nations had to serve Babylon 70 years, then the 70th year ended in 539 and thereby started in 609.

[The Bible—God’s Word or Man’s? - In 539 B.C.E., the time of Babylon’s rule as the preeminent world power came to an end when the vigorous Persian ruler Cyrus, accompanied by the army of Media, marched against the city.]

[w88 12/1 - God’s time had come to end Babylon’s rule. Hence, he had strange handwriting appear on the wall.]

Jere 25:11,12; Daniel 5:26,28,30,31; 2 Chronicles 36:20

_____________

The text clearly states that this judgement began after the fulfilment of the 70 years which could have only ended in 537 BCE with the end of the Exile thus 539 BCE is impossible.

Here is what is said:

[12 “‘But when 70 years have been fulfilled, I will call to account the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’ declares Jehovah,]

Here is what your beloved WTS says:

[w81 8/1 -The idol-worshiping Babylonians now were in line for God’s judgment to be executed upon them. That happened in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians.]

The 70 years had to be fulfilled first in order for Jehovah to call to account/execute judgment on Babylon. The WTS state that judgment/calling to account happened in 539, therefore the 70 years did not end in 537, otherwise Jehovah would have been calling Babylon to account/executing judgment on them in the 68th year of those 70 years. He would be jumping ahead by 2 years of his own appointed time to act when those 70 years had been fulfilled.

[w98 11/15 - We know that Jehovah is the Great Timekeeper, and we have confidence that he never fails to fulfill his purposes at his appointed time.]

Do you believe your GB in their saying that Jehovah executed judgment/called to account Babylon in 539 by them being conquered by Medo-Persia?

Do you believe Jehovah through Jeremiah that 70 years had to be fulfilled first before he would call Babylon to account?

Do you think Jehovah called Babylon to account in the 68th year of those 70 years?

187

Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!

by BoogerMan in

it-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".

it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.

" (galatians 2:1-10).

Duran

You have misconstrued the WT 1981, August 1, in applying Jehovah's judgement against Babylon in 539 BCE with Jer. 25:11-12. This WT article is based on the prophecy of Habakkuk and the paragraph cited by you has in its context not Jer. 25:11-12 but Hab.

How absurd can you be?

Who gives a rat's ass about if the WT was speaking about Hab. That does not change what is said in verse 11&12 and what the WT claims happened in 539.

They said that Jehovah executed judgment on Babylon in 539. Verse 12 says that this would occur when 70 years have been fulfilled. That makes 539 the 70th year, making 609 the 1st of those 70 years.

Babylon was the 3rd world power during that 70-year period and then in 539 the Medes and Persians became the 4th world power.

You can say all you want about that 81WT talking about Hab, but that does not change the context and timing of the 70 years ending in 539 and that that was when the nations served Babylon while it was the 3rd world power, which it ceased being when Medo-Persia conquered it.

Notice Jer. 25:11-12 being cited below.

[Life - History records that Babylon took the Jews into captivity. Yet, about 40 years before this happened Jeremiah foretold it. Isaiah predicted it some 150 years before it happened. He also foretold that the Jews would return from captivity. So did Jeremiah, saying that they would be restored to their land after 70 years.—Isaiah 39:6, 7; 44:26; Jeremiah 25:8-12; 29:10 This return was made possible by the overthrow of Babylon by the Medes and Persians in 539 B.C.E....While Babylon was still a world power the Bible foretold its conquest by a symbolic two-horned ram, representing “the kings of Media and Persia.” (Daniel 8:20) As foretold, Medo-Persia became the next world power when it conquered Babylon in 539 B.C.E.]

187

Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!

by BoogerMan in

it-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".

it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.

" (galatians 2:1-10).

Duran

Oh, my word, you are still here...

You are such a fool with your asinine replies.

You have misconstrued Je. 25:11, 12

I didn't misconstrue anything.

The LIE that the GB teach, is claiming that the 70 years stated in verse 11 and 12, took place 607-537.

Those verses show 2 things that would occur.

1. The 'nations' would serve Babylon 70 years.

2. At the end of those 70 years, Babylon would come to its end/be called to account.

The 81WT correctly points out that Jehovah called Babylon to account in 539, just like verse 12 said he would do when those 70 years were fulfilled.

Being that the 70 years were fulfilled in 539, then that means they started in 609.

That means that the 70 years that the 'nations' would have to serve Babylon, took place 609-539, which makes 607-537 a LIE.

Nebuchadnezzar was king of Babylon before 609, but the nations did not start serving Babylon prior to that time because Assyria was still the 2nd world power at that time. It was not until 609 when Assyria was defeated in Harran, then is when Babylon became the 3rd world power.

That is when (609) ALL the nations started serving under Babylon rule until 539.

70 years is the length of time given to Babylon to be the 3rd world power.

[ 11 ... these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.”]

[12 “‘But when 70 years have been fulfilled, I will call to account the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’ declares Jehovah,]

[26 “This is the interpretation of the words: MEʹNE, God has numbered the days of your kingdom and brought it to an end.27 “TEʹKEL, you have been weighed in the balances and found lacking.28 “PEʹRES, your kingdom has been divided and given to the Medes and the Persians.”]

[w81 8/1 - The idol-worshiping Babylonians now were in line for God’s judgment to be executed upon them. That happened in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians.]

187

Insight Book LIES - then tells the TRUTH!

by BoogerMan in

it-1 p. 493 communication - "when the circumcision issue was resolved by the governing body in jerusalem......".

it-1 p. 881 galatians, letter to the - "by reason of a revelation, paul, with barnabas and titus, went to jerusalem regarding the circumcision issue; he learned nothing new from james, peter, and john, but they recognized that he had been empowered for an apostleship to the nations.

" (galatians 2:1-10).

Duran

[ 11 And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.”’12 “‘But when 70 years have been fulfilled, I will call to account the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’ declares Jehovah, ‘and I will make the land of the Chal·deʹans a desolate wasteland for all time.]

[w11 10/1 - According to Bible chronology, then, the 70 years was a literal period of time that ended in 537 B.C.E. Counting back 70 years, the start date of the period would be 607 B.C.E.]

Above they LIE about the timing of those 70 years but below they tell the truth.

[Isaiah’s Prophecy book - Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above “the stars of God.”...But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble.]
__
[w81 8/1 - The idol-worshiping Babylonians now were in line for God’s judgment to be executed upon them. That happened in 539 B.C.E. when Babylon was overthrown by the Medes and the Persians.]
__
[Isaiah’s Prophecy book - the Babylonians dominated the land of ancient Judah and Jerusalem for some 70 years, from about 609 B.C.E. until 539 B.C.E. when the capital city of Babylon was captured.]

16

JWs in the news: "‘I Slay and Pray’- Jehovah’s Witness Serena Williams Reflects on Her Faith With Daughter Olympia in a Candid Confession"

by Balaamsass2 in

"i slay and pray" :).

serena williams knows how to own a red carpet.

the 23-time grand slam champion turned heads at the vanity fair oscars afterparty, dazzling in a midnight-black, off-shoulder gown.

Duran

He built them up, marketed them, and cashed out.

With the fame and fortune they have as a result, I am guessing they are glad he did so.

Why are so many JW Celebrities black?

I feel like there should be a punchline coming to that...

27

What are some of the more exceptional self-authenticating claims made by Jehovah’s Witnesses?

by Vanderhoven7 in

let's start the ball rolling with two connected claims.. the religion of jehovah’s witnesses is the one true religion.

all other religions are satanic, including all the churches of christendom..

Duran

w07 1/1 p. 28 par. 11 - “The First Resurrection”—Now Under Way! - That would indicate that the first resurrection began sometime between 1914 and 1935."

LOL! What fools the GB and all JWs that believe them.

Claiming the 'first resurrection' has occurred already at some point in that 21-year span, is claiming that the 'last day' has begun, which is the same as saying the 1,000 years have begun.

[ 24 Martha said to him: “I know he will rise in the resurrection on the last day.”]

[ 39 This is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose none out of all those whom he has given me, but that I should resurrect them on the last day. 40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who recognizes the Son and exercises faith in him should have everlasting life, and I will resurrect him on the last day.”]

[w98 7/1 - She might even have learned this from Jesus himself. (John 6:39) That “last day” coincides with the Thousand Year Reign of Christ. (Revelation 20:6) Imagine the excitement during that “day” when this grand event begins!]

[w90 5/1 - She knew that the resurrection would be, not on his (Lazarus’) last day, but in the future, “on the last day”—Judgment Day, when the dead would be raised under God’s Kingdom rule.]

[Learn From the Great Teacher - Well, Martha had heard about Jesus’ promise: ‘All those in the memorial tombs will come out.’ (John 5:28, 29) So “the last day” is when all those in God’s memory will be brought back to life. This last day is not a 24-hour day. It will be a thousand years long. On this day, the Bible says, ‘God will judge the people of the earth.’ The ones he judges will include those who have been resurrected.—Acts 17:31; 2 Peter 3:8. Think about what a wonderful day this will be! During this thousand-year-long day, many millions of people who have died will be brought back to life.]

So much for them claiming the 'first resurrection' began at some point between 1914-1935, because there they show that they are waiting for 'that day' to begin in the future.

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Duran

WT teaching that the “modern fulfillment” of this fleeing to the mountains was Fleeing ,to, taking refuge in God’s Kingdom - the Mountain of Jehovah

[82 WT- What are these symbolic mountains today? They are the divinely provided place of refuge, Jehovah’s provision for protecting his people on earth through the “great tribulation” described at Revelation 7:1, 14. They are identified with Jehovah’s theocratic organization, which is represented on earth today in the true Christian congregation.]

_____________

The WTS/GB have no clue in regard to 'fleeing to the mountains'. That part of the prophesy serves no purpose and can't be in the future.

In the past it saved the lives of those that fled. They were out when Rome came in.

For the future, the GB claim the GT starts when 8th king, and nations turn on BTG. They say when that happens, that because JWs are not part of BTG, then that means JWs/WTS are not affected at first.

Okay, let's say that is the case. Well, at that point no such fleeing will be needed yet.

Moving on, then they say after BTG had been turned on and the 8th king and nations see JWs carrying on, then they will turn on them.

Okay, let's say that is the case. Well, there still is no need and nowhere to flee to at that point. If you are already a JW at that time (in the right mountain) carrying on to the point you now get turned on by the 8th king, how/where could any such fleeing occur?

Also, they state that at that time all WTS property will be taken away. So again, how do you flee in the future and to where do you go?

The reality is according to the Scriptures (true or not, it's what is written), is when the 8th king comes to power (due to the nations given their power), this will be the point when everything said in regard to the MOTB, etc. will take place.

All people, including JWs will be faced to support or reject the 8th king. If one rejects the 8th king, they will find themselves unable to buy and sell and end up being either killed or in captivity. And many even dying in captivity. This is why it is limited/cut short/given an appointed time of 42 months. That period is what the GT is. It comes upon on those rejecting the 8th king.

Those that support the 8th king will be under his authority but will be surviving/thriving based on their support of.

After that allowed time, the tables turn, and Jesus comes. He does away with the 8th king and all that supported him. He (Jesus) resurrects (first) the chosen ones that will rule with him that the 8th king killed. The surviving ones that rejected the 8th king are the GC that come out of the GT.

Satan is abyssed, and then at some point the resurrecting begins in whatever amount and frequency it will occur. These once resurrected join with the GC and live under the kingdom rule of Jesus and his chosen to rule with him.

Fairy tale? Maybe!

Dudes trippin, writing stuff down for future idiots to argue about? Maybe!

But that is what is said.

If it is true, what I will find entertaining, is when there are JWs that reject the MOTB/8th king, and they find themselves in captivity with others that outnumber them and are from all other religions. That's when they will find out that they were no more the true region than any other. If they find themselves being part of the GC at the end, it won't be because they were a JW before that point. It will be because they rejected the 8th king. That will be the case for all in there. (In fact, JWs are in a bad position and most of them are likely to take the MOTB/support the 8th king, because their GB do not warn them about this being the future situation being faced. They do say the UN/8th king is the DT, so they may at some point soon or at the last minute before the 'last hour' begins, they might change to warning about this. But they will never admit to learning about this from reading so-called apostate's sites like this one. LOL! Actually, the WTS/GB already know they are not the only one true religion and that it is really all religions that are in the same boat.)

The field is the world, the field is not one religion today. Wheatlike people are all over the world now as well as weedlike people. People can claim whatever they want now about their beliefs, but if they support the 8th king when that time comes, their claims meant nothing, they end up dead, proving not to be wheat.

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Duran

No, this is where we differ. IMO this has happened already.

If you think this already happen, then whom/when is the entity in the past that received 42 months to have authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation and was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them?

You can make that choice even now.

That is a ridiculous statement to make based on considering those Scriptures, which you obviously aren't. Is anyone currently or ever in the past having to choose between taking the MOTB/worshipping the beast or not?

The Scriptures show that there is a precise point in time that due to the earth beast/false prophet, that the time will come to have to take the mark, etc. That is the choice that all will have to face and will judge who really are God's people or not. When do you say that time takes place? Rev

Yes, I believe this to take place after the tribulation.

(This goes along with what was just asked above.)

Okay, so if takes place after the tribulation, and according to Rev 20:4 those that will rule with Jesus it is said that they 'had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand', where in Rev does it show the timing of when/how they were being forced to worship/take the MOTB,etc....

When does this period of the MOTB occur so then after, this can be said, based on the choice one made during that MOTB period?

9

1 Thessalonians 5:3....Prophecy ?

by HereIam60 in

i've always had difficulty understanding how watch tower interprets 1 thessalonians 5:3 as prophetic of a future event - that the nations will unite in a (false) cry that they have achieved 'peace and security' which will signal the start of the great tribulation.

whenever i've read that passage i got the sense that it is simply stating a general principle... that when people are complacent and off-guard, thinking everything is o.k., peaceful and secure then sudden unexpected events hit them harder and they don't know what to do.

when i was first coming in (1980s) i well recall the "true peace and security" book that made a big deal about the un having declared 1986 'the international year of peace'.

Duran

[7 When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them. 8 And their corpses will be on the main street of the great city that is in a spiritual sense called Sodʹom and Egypt, where their Lord was also executed on the stake. 9 And those of the peoples and tribes and tongues and nations will look at their corpses for three and a half days, and they do not allow their corpses to be laid in a tomb. 10 And those dwelling on the earth rejoice over them and celebrate, and they will send gifts to one another, because these two prophets tormented those dwelling on the earth.]

[3 Whenever it is that they are saying, “Peace and security!” then sudden destruction is to be instantly on them, just like birth pains on a pregnant woman, and they will by no means escape.]

[ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]