Posts by Duran

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Duran

[18 Look! He has no faith in his servants, And he finds fault with his angels.] 4397. malak (messenger)

[6 Now the day came when the sons of the true God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and Satan also entered among them.] 1121. ben (son)

[2 the sons of the true God began to notice that the daughters of men were beautiful. So they began taking as wives all whom they chose.] 1121. ben (son)

[6 And the angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds in dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.] 32. aggelos (messenger,angel)

[2 Then Jehovah’s angel went up from Gilʹgal to Boʹchim and said: “I brought you up out of Egypt into the land about which I swore to your forefathers. Furthermore, I said, ‘I will never break my covenant with you.] 4397. malak (messenger)

[5 For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son] 32. aggelos (messenger,angel) - 5207. huios (son)

[ 35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one who has been chosen. Listen to him.”] 5207. huios (son)

[ 17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory when words such as these were conveyed to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my Son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.”] 5207. huios (son)

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Duran

@ aqwsed12345

Alot posted from you there and yet still did to answer my questions. Can you answer just what is asked here...

Are those sons of God, are they angels? (Speaking of those said to take their station before Jehovah. Job 1:6)

Is Satan an angel?

Is Satan God's son?

Is Michael an angel?

Is Michael God's son?

__________________________

The term “archangel” means “chief angel” or “leading angel,”
Even if Michael were unique in this rank, this does not imply that Jesus must be Michael.

[7 And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled]

[ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels]

So, you don't think Michael is Jesus...OKAY, but do you think:

Michael's angels are Jesus' angels?

Do you think Michael is included among Jesus' angels?

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Duran

@ aqwsed

[6 Now the day came when the sons of the true God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and Satan also entered among them.]

Are those said 'sons' of God, angels?

Is Satan an angel?

Is Satan God's son?

Is Michael the archangel, God's son?

Returns with authority “with the voice of an archangel” but is never called the archangel Himself.

You do not believe Jesus is Michael the archangel, so whomever/whatever you believe Jesus is, is Jesus in your understanding above an archangel?

If so, why would Jesus be said to come with a voice of something that is lesser in authority then himself?

171

Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine

by slimboyfat in

in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.

this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.

the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.

Duran

Where did you read anywhere that the Father "created" or "made" the Son? I only read that the Son was born or begotten of the Father.

[14 “To the angel of the congregation in La·o·di·ceʹa write: These are the things that the Amen says, the faithful and true witness, the beginning of the creation by God:]

In John 10:30, Jesus declares, "I and the Father are one," which the Jews understood as a claim to divinity,

[22 I have given them the glory that you have given me, in order that they may be one just as we are one.]

According to the above 'they' (Jesus' disciples) are ONE 'just as' Jehovah and Jesus are ONE.

In what way are the disciples ONE that is JUST AS Jehovah and Jesus being ONE?

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Duran

@ aqwsed

Any response to my above post?

5

WHAT DOES THE NEW LIGHT ON THE UNITED NATIONS REVEAL ABOUT THE WATCHTOWER

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/8p5z-acq8yi?si=zs5r75kguxkk1woc.

so what you are about to watch is the 3rd adjustment that was introduced in the annual meeting by geofftey jackson and it has to do with the their new understanding on the united nations, so here is the verse revelation 17:12 :"these have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast.

" so they used to believe that the "one thought" in this verse was the one thought to destroy babylon the great but that has now changed to one thought empowering the united nations with more powers to carry on god's will and bring armageddon.

Duran

So what you are about to watch is the 3rd adjustment that was introduced in the Annual Meeting by Geofftey Jackson and it has to do with the their new understanding on the United Nations, so here is the verse Revelation 17:12 :"These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast." So they used to believe that the "one thought" in this verse was the one thought to destroy Babylon the Great but that has now changed to one thought empowering the United Nations with more powers to carry on God's will and bring Armageddon.

Apparently, GB member Jackson is not aware that this is not a NEW teaching.

1. The Bible has not changed, it has always said that the thought is to give their power to the beast.

2. The WTS has already shown that the power/authority is given first and then at some point they turn on BTG.

[Revelation Climax – As John soon learns, the time will come when the UN will act with considerable authority. Then it, in its turn, “goes off into destruction.”]

[6-15-12 WT – Any power it (8th king/U.N.) has comes from its member nations, especially from its key backer, the Anglo-American World Power. (Rev. 17:10, 11) But it does receive authority to act as a king to carry out a specific task, one that triggers a chain of events that will change history.]

121

PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!

by Terry in

jw
friends

my only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.

etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.

) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).

Duran

70 years old...

Robert F. Kennedy Jr films workout ahead of election debate with Biden

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

Duran

Free will?

There is a beautiful girl over yonder. I want to be with her, I am going to go over ask her to marry me, hope she says YES of her own free will.

1. She said YES, great!

2. She said NO, I said well okay go on about your life.

Free will?

____________________

Free will?

There is a beautiful girl over yonder. I want to be with her, I am going to go over ask her to marry me, hope she says YES of her own free will, but I will also let her know if she says NO that I am going to kill her if she does not say YES.

1. She said YES, great! Wait, did she say YES out of her own free will or because she didn't want me to kill her?

2. She said NO, I killed her.

Free will?

171

Alteration of Revelation 3:14 in the 4th century to support the emerging Trinity doctrine

by slimboyfat in

in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.

this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.

the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.

Duran

Jesus is begotten, not created, and shares in the Father’s essence, unlike anything else in creation.

Jesus is clearly said to be created. He is the first of Jehovah God's creation. That is why he is said to be the firstborn. And the essence that he shares with Jehovah is that they are both spirit beings as are all angels/God's sons are spirit beings.

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Duran

Revelation 5:13-14 depicts “every creature” praising both “the One seated on the throne” and “the Lamb,” with “blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever.” The worship directed at both signifies that the Lamb (Jesus) and the Father are equally worthy of divine worship, reinforcing the Christian understanding of the Trinity.

Trinity LOL!

You know 'tri' means 3 and in YOU trinitarians nonsense you are supposed to include the HS equally when speaking about 'both' Jehovah and Jesus and yet no mention of the HS anywhere above.

And with what honor and glory that Jesus (the Lamb) gets and will get is with Jehovah's full approval and doing. It is Jehovah that exalted him and put him in position to receive such. That never in no way makes them 'both' the same person or equal beings. It never means that Jesus is Jehovah God.

The title “archangel” is only ever directly applied to Michael (Jude 1:9), not Jesus. If Jesus were Michael, Hebrews 1:5 would not make sense, as God would indeed be calling one of the angels His Son, directly contradicting the passage.

LOL! There is no contradiction. Verse 5 asked the clear question 'to which one of the angels did God ever say'.

That's the question asked. Now you seem to have an issue with God calling one of the angels his son, is that right?

[ 2 the sons of the true God began to notice that the daughters of men were beautiful. So they began taking as wives all whom they chose.]

[4 Certainly God did not refrain from punishing the angels who sinned, but threw them into Tarʹta·rus, putting them in chains of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment.]

[6 And the angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds in dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.]

You tell me, are the angels that got with the women, are they God's sons?

How about the angels that did not forsake their original position, are they God's sons?

What about here:

[6 Now the day came when the sons of the true God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and Satan also entered among them.]

Are those sons of God, are they angels?

Is Satan an angel?

Is Satan God's son?

Is Michael an angel?

Is Michael God's son?

So, if Jesus is Michael (the archangel), what would be the issue with God calling Jesus his son?

The context shows that the answer to verse 5 as to what angel did God say that to was God's firstborn angelic son.

New International Version
And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”