Posts by Duran

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

Duran

When he fell, he took it all with him

You say that like it was Adam that subjected all to futility, but it was God who decided that ALL people who didn't even exist yet, they would all have to suffer sin, being born right into it from the beginning of their life, even though they personally did not do anything to deserve such penalty.

It was God that subjected it because of what Adam did:

[20 For the creation was subjected to futility, not by its own will, but through the one who subjected it, on the basis of hope.]

[17 And to Adam he said: “Because you listened to your wife’s voice and ate from the tree concerning which I gave you this command, ‘You must not eat from it,’ cursed is the ground on your account. In pain you will eat its produce all the days of your life. 18 It will grow thorns and thistles for you, and you must eat the vegetation of the field. 19 In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”]

If that only applied to Adam and Eve for their actions, then that would be a case where you could say, Well the one that created them set the rules and they disobeyed therefore received the outcome.

But instead, you have this:

[12 That is why, just as through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and so death spread to all men ~~because they had all sinned~~]

That ~~last part~~ is not true that ALL men had sinned. How does a newborn baby sin (disobey God)? They don't! All men sinned is based on God's decision that it would automaticity spread to all Adam's offspring at birth, or I suppose even at conception.

How about my question on Lazarus?

121

PRESIDENTIAL predictions...let the prognosticators have their say!

by Terry in

jw
friends

my only prowess in making predictions stems from my 77-years of life in the united statesgrowing up under president truman, eisenhower, kennedy, nixon, .....etc.

etc.i was a widdle kid sitting in front of a tiny black and white tv set when the very first broadcastsof political conventions, deal-making, debates (nixon vs kennedy), assassinations (jfk, rfk, martin luther king, etc.

) i grew up with duck and cover under my elementary schooldesk, the cold war, the iron curtain, the korean war, the vietnam war and i went to federal prisonas a jw conscientious objector while hippies, flower children, political activists protested and universitystudents were fired up on by troops.i grew up reading newspapers (2 of them).

Duran

There is no way at this point to talk about how many votes Trump got or Harris. Or about the whole where are the 19/20 million voters from 2020. Just because the race and states have been declared for a Trump win does not mean that the votes are all in. They are still counting votes today. When done it won't change the outcome of the winner, but it will account for the so-called missing millions and show just how many Trump and Harris actually got.

75

WATCHTOWER JAN 2025: WHY IS THE WATCHTOWER OBSESSED WITH THE RANSOM?

by raymond frantz in

https://youtu.be/ocufvpm3t04?si=75zmussxknhlsrs7.

the first watchtower for 2025 is out, and immediately, articles 4 and 5 drew my attention.

these will be studied near the memorial season, a time the witnesses prepare for their yearly commemoration of jesus’ death, i will be returning on this articles near at the time.

Duran

Since the Fall, I don't think we really have the extent of Free-Will God created man with.

God directly created Adam and Eve. They directly disobeyed him using their 'freewill' to do so.

Before they disobeyed, they were said to be perfect without sin.

If they disobeyed out of their freewill and that induced sin to be in them, so be it.

I can accept that they started off with perfection and told keep choosing to listen to me and remain perfect/sin free (not dying/not suffering, etc) but when you choose to disobey me you will lose your perfection and become sinful (begin dying/suffering, etc).

But here comes the ridiculous unfair part.

It was decided (by God) that Adam and Eve's children and every person born thereafter would automatically be born sinful/not perfect subjected to suffering and death, while claiming that they still will have freewill.

This means that every human other than Adam and Eve are subjected to the penalty that is giving to someone who willfully disobeys, they receive that penalty without ever doing themselves the very act of disobeying. They are born having that penalty before they ever have a chance out of their own freewill to obey or not.

So now if one is so-called disobeying today and if one is so-called obeying, both are dying/suffering being born with sin at no fault, no choice, no doing of their own.

The one so-called obeying can say to the one so-called disobeying; 'Hey you should obey' and the one so-called disobeying can say, 'Why, what is going to happen if I don't, am I going to receive the penalty of sin (suffering/death), the penalty I already received at no fault of my own when I was born.'

______________

Here is a question for you SB, if the wage that sin pays is death and being that Lazarus died, was he perfect without sin when he was resurrected? Why did he die again?

66

Trump wins

by gavindlt in

i am non political and have never voted but nonetheless i have been keenly watching to see how the trump presidential race unfolds.

i believe that his involvement in propelling or influencing a leaning toward bible prophecy will unfold.

how, i can’t say but something tells me that this anomaly and outlier being trump is highly signifiant!

Duran

Kamala still hasn't conceded,

She has, a couple hours ago it was said she called Trump. She is now about to talk live starting at 4pm.

WATCH LIVE: Kamala Harris speaks for first time since losing presidential race

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Duran

@ aqwsed

I suppose I have no one to blame but myself for attempting to reason with a total foolish person unable to discuss. You keep with your copy and paste and don't even understand what you post. You keep just repeating the same.

You fail to understand that the question asked 'to which one of the angels' did God say that to, is just that, what angel/spirit being son did he say that to. That's because that is all there is to choose from. There is Jehovah God, who was not created, and then there are all his angels/spirit being sons that he created.

The one he (Jehovah) made/created first is considered his firstborn and that is what accounts for the sonship that does not apply to the other angel sons. It is that angel son that came to earth (for the first time) and when raised back to heaven sat at the right hand of God at that time. That is his exalted position. He is equal with God now from that point in the sense that he now has life within himself and everything/everyone (except Jehovah) is subjected to him. This was Jehovah's doing/reward to him in the exalted superior position.

Even the chosen ones will be rewarded with life within themselves as well as getting to rule with Jesus for the 1,000 years. Jesus rules from the time he sat on the throne with Jehovah (at his right hand) until sometime after the 1,000 years when the last enemy death comes to an end and then hands the kingdom back to Jehovah.

Jesus comes to earth a second time after the GT and guess what Michael is said to do...

[12 “At that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people.]

[24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.]

[ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

___________________

Will you answer the post where I said: 'Putting Jesus aside here"

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Duran

@ aqwsed

While I wait for your response to the above, I will add this:

Jesus’ authority over angels is absolute (Matthew 28:18), whereas Michael’s role as “one of the chief princes” (Daniel 10:13) implies a level of hierarchy under divine authority rather than supreme authority. Michael is a commander within the angelic ranks, whereas Jesus is “Lord of lords” and “King of kings” (Revelation 19:16), over all creation.

You are speaking of Michael at a point in time as referenced in Daniel. This was before Jesus came to earth as a man. Michael was/is under authority of God, YES and as archangel with God's authority, Michael had authority over the angels. (Technically over his brothers, they and him being sons of God.)

Jesus does indeed have authority over all creation, but he does not over Jehovah God. It was after Jesus died and was raised that he was exalted to a superior position. He was given that power and authority over all by Jehovah.

Jesus, a son of God has authority over the angels/sons of God (Jesus' brothers) which he always had in his position as archangel, but now since coming and dying and being raised, now in his exalted superior position, the angels/his brothers are subject to him based on his own authority, not Jehovah's as he has been given authority over all in heaven and earth, except over Jehovah God.

[ 8 More than that, when he came as a man, he humbled himself and became obedient to the point of death, yes, death on a torture stake. 9 For this very reason, God exalted him to a superior position]

[ 18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.]

[22 He is at God’s right hand, for he went to heaven, and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him.]

[27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.]

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Duran

Yes, Satan is a fallen angel. Originally created as a spirit being
Michael is indeed an angel,
Yes, the "sons of God" mentioned in Job 1:6 refer to angels, but they are a general category of created beings. They are spiritual beings created by God and, as such, can be referred to as "sons of God"

Putting Jesus aside here, we agree that ALL angels (including Michael and Satan) are spirit beings created by God and they are considered God's sons. (1121. ben/5207. huios)

That said, tell me if you agree with the following:

God existed before he created ANY of these said angelic spirit sons.

Then at some point, he created them and then they came to exist along with him.

The one he created first would be his first created angelic spirit son.

Do you follow and agree with the said so far?

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Duran

Hebrew 4397. malak (messenger) - Greek 32. aggelos (messenger,angel)

Hebrew 1121. ben (son) - Greek 5207. huios (son)

___________________

When I talk about 'angels', I am speaking about spirit-beings that Jehovah God created.

When I talk about 'sons' here, I am talking about these angelic spirit-beings that Jehovah created which are said to be myriads of them. These would include Michael, Satan, and Gabriel.

Did he create all of them at the same time... or in many septate groups at different times.

If it was many septate groups at different times, that means there is a group of however many they were, that are Jehovah's first angelic spirit-being sons. These unknown number of sons would be his firstborns/first created angelic spirit-being sons.

Now at this point, no matter how many more groups followed to complete all the myriads that were created, the one thing that would be so, is that the first group were on hand to witness ALL the following groups being created.

Now what if Jehovah didn't start with a group, what if he started with one, maybe just Michael.

Then that would mean Michael was his firstborn/first created angelic spirit-being son.

Then after that, what if he went to creating groups at a time until all angelic spirit-being sons were created.

That would mean that Michael his firstborn/first created angelic spirit-being son was on hand to see all other angelic spirit-being sons being created.

Now jumping to Jesus, with Jehovah calling him a 'son' (5207. huios) at Luke 9:35. That mention of him being called Jehovah's 'son' is no different than all the myriads of angelic spirit-beings being called Jehovah's 'sons'. (1121. ben - 5207. huios)

The significance when it comes to Jesus is that he was audibly/publicly called 'son' by Jehovah in order to be glorified by him. And it was said that he was the chosen one and to listen to him.

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Duran

[18 Look! He has no faith in his servants, And he finds fault with his angels.] 4397. malak (messenger)

[6 Now the day came when the sons of the true God entered to take their station before Jehovah, and Satan also entered among them.] 1121. ben (son)

[2 the sons of the true God began to notice that the daughters of men were beautiful. So they began taking as wives all whom they chose.] 1121. ben (son)

[6 And the angels who did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place, he has reserved with eternal bonds in dense darkness for the judgment of the great day.] 32. aggelos (messenger,angel)

[2 Then Jehovah’s angel went up from Gilʹgal to Boʹchim and said: “I brought you up out of Egypt into the land about which I swore to your forefathers. Furthermore, I said, ‘I will never break my covenant with you.] 4397. malak (messenger)

[5 For example, to which one of the angels did God ever say: “You are my son] 32. aggelos (messenger,angel) - 5207. huios (son)

[ 35 Then a voice came out of the cloud, saying: “This is my Son, the one who has been chosen. Listen to him.”] 5207. huios (son)

[ 17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory when words such as these were conveyed to him by the magnificent glory: “This is my Son, my beloved, whom I myself have approved.”] 5207. huios (son)

51

Searching

by Striker in

jude 1:9 (kjv) yet michael the archangel, when contending with the devil he disputed about the body of moses, durst not bring against him a railing accusation, but said, the lord rebuke thee.. matthew 4:10 (kjv) then saith jesus unto him, get thee hence, satan: for it is written, thou shalt worship the lord thy god, and him only shalt thou serve.

.

.....my understanding is that you all believe jesus is michael the archangel....... the two verses above describe two different personalities..... the archangel in jude rebuked satan in the name of the father, because he knew it was not his place to rebuke him, he knew that he didn't have the authority to do so, that the only person who possesses this authority is god himself.... while jesus, in matthew 4:10, does not need to invoke the name of the father to rebuke satan, because the father and jesus are one, not michael and jesus..... .... because michael the archangel is not jesus christ our savior.....

Duran

@ aqwsed12345

Alot posted from you there and yet still did to answer my questions. Can you answer just what is asked here...

Are those sons of God, are they angels? (Speaking of those said to take their station before Jehovah. Job 1:6)

Is Satan an angel?

Is Satan God's son?

Is Michael an angel?

Is Michael God's son?

__________________________

The term “archangel” means “chief angel” or “leading angel,”
Even if Michael were unique in this rank, this does not imply that Jesus must be Michael.

[7 And war broke out in heaven: Miʹcha·el and his angels battled with the dragon, and the dragon and its angels battled]

[ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels]

So, you don't think Michael is Jesus...OKAY, but do you think:

Michael's angels are Jesus' angels?

Do you think Michael is included among Jesus' angels?