in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
Those in a state of perfect grace and friendship with God enter heaven immediately,
Can you cite ANY Scriptures to support that there are already persons in heaven now that were humans here on earth?
A living believer is awaiting the Second Coming of Christ
Is there ANYTHING that has to happen prophecy wise before Jesus is said to come?
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
@aqwsed
Okay, your right, Jesus is everything you believe he is. All non-believing trinitarians are wrong.
What happens to a trinitarian that died yesterday?
What happens to a non-trinitarian that died yesterday?
Today, what is a living trinitarian (YOU) waiting to take place next in regard to Bible prophecy?
When do YOU believe that Jesus (God) will return according to Bible prophecy?
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
You emphasized that all beings in heaven are spirit beings, not implying they are of the same divinity or status as God.
Bees are bees! In a hive there is a queen bee and worker bees. The queen has a status, and all the worker bees have a status relative to the queen and each other, but regardless of status they are all bees.
God has his status like the queen bee does, and like the worker bees, all of God's heavenly sons have their status relative to God and to each other, but regardless of status they are all spirit beings.
[24 God is a Spirit,]
[48 ...like the heavenly one, so too are those who are heavenly.]
[ 14 Are they not all spirits...]
Hebrews 1:3-4, for example, explains that Jesus is the “exact representation of God’s being,”
exact - precise - marked by exactness and accuracy of expression or detail
representation - the action of speaking or acting on behalf of someone
[ 49 For I have not spoken of my own initiative, but the Father who sent me has himself given me a commandment about what to say and what to speak.]
He has the power to redeem humanity and the authority to judge.
Jehovah gave him that power and authority.
[ 26 For just as the Father has life in himself, so he has granted also to the Son to have life in himself. 27 And he has given him authority to do judging, because he is the Son of man. 28 Do not be amazed at this, for the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice. 30 I cannot do a single thing of my own initiative. Just as I hear, I judge, and my judgment is righteous because I seek, not my own will, but the will of him who sent me.]
[18 Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: “All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth.]
[ 27 For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him.]
[3 But I want you to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn, the head of a woman is the man; in turn, the head of the Christ is God.]
You stated that after His 40-day period on earth post-resurrection, Jesus returned to heaven “as a spirit.” However, the biblical witness in passages like Acts 1:9-11 and Luke 24:39-43 highlights that Jesus ascended in His glorified, physical body, which is now eternal and imperishable.
LOL! In those passages, YES, they describe a physical body. I never claimed other. Just as Lazaras was resurrected with his same body he died with; Jesus was resurrected with his same body that was on the stake.
As far as returning to heaven as a spirit on the 40th day, they saw him in his physical human body until the clouds blocked their view. From that point on he would have become a spirit being again. When he returns it says it will be in the same manner as they saw him leaving, meaning appearing from out of the clouds in a physical body again. His body at that point will a different one/a new one just as those that will be resurrected will have different/new ones.
The two angels that were with Lot are spirit beings from heaven, yet when on earth they appeared to Lot in physical bodies, do you think those two angels are back in heaven now with those same physical bodies or were the bodies discarded with, and they returned to being spirit beings...
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
Once again being the fool that you are it is no surprise that you can't resist responding with your nonsense claims.
While it's true that God is spirit (John 4:24), this statement does not imply that all spiritual beings are of the same divine essence or status as God. Angels are created beings, not divine in the same way as God.
Nothing I wrote was implying about 'spirt beings' being the same in divinity or status. My only emphasis was that all beings in heaven are spirits.
The term “firstborn” (e.g., Colossians 1:15) in Scripture does not imply that Jesus was created.
Nothing I wrote implied that Jesus was created or not.
The Bible reveals that, though Jesus took on human flesh (Philippians 2:6-8), He did not lose His divinity or revert back to a purely “spiritual” form after the resurrection.
As mentioned, Jesus did not revert to being solely a spirit after His resurrection. His ascension into heaven (Acts 1:9-11) was in His glorified body. The angel’s statement to the apostles—“This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen him go”—emphasizes that He will return visibly and bodily, not merely as an invisible spirit.
Learn to understand what you read. I never said upon when he was resurrected that he returned to being a spirit, I said 40 days AFTER he was resurrected as a human, he returned to heaven as a spirit again. And I never said that he comes back invisible. I said he came to earth as a human the first time when born to Mary and will come again a second time after the GT. I cited Scriptures including what you show there in Acts that show he will be seen when he comes again.
You assert that it doesn’t matter whether “Jesus God” or “Jesus, son of God” returns, as long as the GT happens.
Again, you have no understanding whatsoever. My point was being that Jesus is said to come AFTER the GT then what matters now is the events (WW3) take place to bring on the GT (42-month 8th king) so that he can come AFTER such time. If the GT never comes, it does not matter what version Jesus is, because neither version will ever come.
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
In your response, the bolded sections seem intended to reinforce an argument that Jesus is not divine or equal with God by emphasizing distinctions between the Father and the Son. The comments appear to suggest that Jesus’ role as the “last Adam” and “Son of God” should not imply divinity but rather align him with humanity. Furthermore, references to Philippians 2:6 in the New World Translation attempt to argue that Jesus does not claim equality with God.
You just keep showing yourself to be a rambling fool. I did not make any commentary there about divinity or equality in regard to Jehovah and Jesus. My focus is the bolden areas, not necessary the context. So, the rambling you keep doing is pointless and has nothing to do with what is shown in the bolden.
To start it says that God is a spirit. (That is God's form, a spirit being.) This is the foundation, 'God' is a spirit being.
God created other spirit beings. Those spirit beings are said to be God's spirit sons. God and his spirit sons are heavenly.
God also created a man (Adam) on earth from dust. Adam is said to be God's human son. (God created Eve as well, a woman who is God's human daughter.)
All persons that come from Adam and Eve are humans on earth. All in heaven including God himself are spirit beings.1 Corinthians 15:45,48
God's firstborn/begotten son Jesus, a spirit being in heaven came to earth and took on a human form by being born from Mary. (That coming to earth then as a human is considered his first time.)
After 40 days from his resurrection as a human he returned to heaven as a spirit being again.
After the future GT, Jesus is said to come to earth again which will be his second coming.
1 Peter 3:18,19;Acts 1:3,9-11;Hebrews 1:6;9:28;Mark 13:24-26
Everything I said here is accurate and should be in agreement with trinity believes and those who do not believe the trinity.
There is no reason here to say, 'yeah it is accurate, but Jesus is not God' or 'yeah it is accurate, but Jesus is God'.
All that matters at this point is that events happen that bring about the GT, so that Jesus can come after. I don't care if Jesus God shows up or Jesus, son of God shows up. If the Bible's version of the GT never happens then like the atheist believe now, the Bible is just a bunch of BS.
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
WhileGod created all spiritual beingsthrough Jesus (Colossians 1:16), orthodox Christianity does not view Jesus as a “first created spirit son.”
Thus, whileAdam is the "first human son" in a created sense,Jesus is uniquely the eternal Son of God who becomes incarnate to redeem humanity, not just another created being.
Jesus as the "last Adam"is essential because, unlike the first Adam, Jesus brings life and reconciliation through His death and resurrection.
[38 son of Eʹnosh, son of Seth, son of Adam, son of God.]
[1 The beginning of the good news about Jesus Christ, the son of God]
[ 47 The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven. 48 Like the one made of dust, so too are those made of dust; and like the heavenly one, so too are those who are heavenly.]
[24 God is a Spirit,]
[6 Now the day came when the sons of the true God entered to take their station before Jehovah]
[ 14 Are they not all spirits for holy service,]
[ 5 Keep this mental attitude in you that was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although he was existing in God’s form, did not even consider the idea of trying to be equal to God. 7 No, but he emptied himself and took a slave’s form and became human.]
[ 18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit. 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison,]
[ 6 But when he again brings his Firstborn into the inhabited earth]
[28 so also the Christ was offered once for all time to bear the sins of many; and the second time that he appears it will be apart from sin, and he will be seen by those earnestly looking for him for their salvation.]
TBC...
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
@aqwsed
So, your version of 'God' created all 'spirit beings', and they are viewed as being his 'spirit sons', and the first one of those 'spirit sons' that God created, would be God's 'first spirit son'.
Your version of 'God' created Adam and Adam is God's 'first human son'.
Do you agree with the above?
_____________
In Christian theology, Jesus is also known as the "second Adam" due to His role in redemption. Where the first Adam brought sin and separation from God, Jesus (the "second Adam") brings reconciliation and life.
[45 So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living person.” The last Adam became a life-giving spirit.]
[18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.]
[ 22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive.]
Do you agree with those Scriptures?
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
@aqwsed
You are rambling on and on and it does nothing to answer what I asked.
I have asked very pointed questions to which you seem to not be able to answer directly.
I started out given you that about what you believe in Jesus being God so there is no need for you to reply with all the rambling that you do in that regard.
The Bible does not identify a "first-created spirit son" in relation to Jehovah/Jesus
I did not ask my question based on rather it says it or not. I asked it based on your understanding:
How would you refer/describe the first created 'spirit son' in relation to your Jehovah/Jesus God?
How would you refer/describe Adam in relation to your Jehovah/Jesus God?
those who say they are christians or follow christianity needs .
1. father .
2. jesus .
The diagram is scriptural and illustrates how Jesus is both Fully Man and Fully God.
SB, do you have a spirit?
Do you have emotions, will and a mind?
Do you have a body?
Are you a god?
Are you Jehovah God?
in an earlier thread another poster asserted that there is no evidence that revelation 3:14 played a part in the 4th controversy that led to the trinity doctrine.
this was claimed as evidence that the description of jesus as “the beginning of the creation of god” in the verse was not understood to mean that jesus was god’s first creation.
the scholarly greek–english lexicon of the new testament & other early christian literature 3e (2001) by bauer, arndt, gingrich, and danker, in its latest edition states that “first creation” is indeed the probable meaning of the greek phrase.
@aqwsed
In your view of your 'Jehovah spirit/Jesus man God' being one in the same, having always existed not being created, did that God create all his said 'spirit sons'?
How would you refer/describe the first created 'spirit son' in relation to your Jehovah/Jesus God?
Did your Jehovah/Jesus God create Adam?
How would you refer/describe Adam in relation to your Jehovah/Jesus God?
__________________________
[ 17 Jesus said to her: “Stop clinging to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. But go to my brothers and say to them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’”]
Who is Jesus' God and Father referring to there?
Who are Jesus' brothers there?
Who is God and Father of the said brothers referring to there?
____________________
[ 29 because those whom he gave his first recognition he also foreordained to be patterned after the image of his Son, so that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.]
Who is he/his referring to there?
Who is Son referring to there and how is he 'firstborn among many brothers'?
Who are the 'many brothers' referring to there?
_____________________
[ 18 For Christ died once for all time for sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, in order to lead you to God. He was put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison,]
Who are the 'spirits in prison' referring to there?
