may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.
what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.
now the wt is saying that's not enough.
I'll leave Revelation to scholars Duran. But do you agree that this generation in the gospels is singularly about Christ's own generation?
LOL! Way to deflect Van.
We are not talking about 'generation', we are talking about there being or not being, a future 42 month said GT after 66-70.
Do you really need scholars to know if the following has happened:
Rev 17:13;13:5,7,10;14:6,7,9-10;7:9,13,14;20:4;19:20,21
may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.
what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.
now the wt is saying that's not enough.
As I indicated, I don't need to get into the book of Revelation to interpret Matthew 24 and parallel passages.
I am not concerned about the need for you to continue to interpret Matt 24. I said, let's say that you are right about all you say in regard to the GT during 66-70.
I just want to know, do you believe the GC came out of the 66-70 GT period, or does the GC come out of 'another' said GT period? (Revelation 7:9,13,14)
If you say 'another', then when is that GT period to occur or has it already, if so, when?
https://youtu.be/ro6q_osgkns?si=hyxualluhruwvjnb.
—colossians 1:15 from the nwt says it plain as day: “he is the image of the invisible god, the firstborn of all creation.” that’s not vague; it’s got a punch.
“firstborn” and “creation” sit side by side, and in greek, that second word is “ktisis,” which means the physical stuff—trees, stars, you name it.
SB making his chart...
may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.
what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.
now the wt is saying that's not enough.
@Vanderhoven
Can you tell me if the GC mentioned in Rev 7, came out of the 66-70 GT period, or does the GC come out of 'another' said GT period?
If you say 'another', then when is that GT period to occur or has it already, if so, when?
[9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.13 In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.]
may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.
what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.
now the wt is saying that's not enough.
If one believes in the duel fulfillment theory we need to attempt to discover how things Jesus predicted in Matthew 24 apply and mean for us today.
On the first page, I already addressed that, saying:
[It does have a future application according to the Bible. But the parts that you are referring to do not apply.] (here)
Note that it is "the sign of the Son of Man in heaven", not the Son of man visiting the earth.
First off, the 'sign' is the sun, moon, star event. It occurs just prior to his coming. Seeing that event, those having faith in him will stand up straight/lift their heads (rejoice) because they know that event is the sign they are about to get relief/deliverance from the TRIB that they are undergoing at that time living under the 8th king while refusing him.
In contrast, those that didn't have faith in him and went along with the 8th king, when they see that sign, they will be in fear because they know they are about to be killed off. (here)
Does the phrase "coming (not parousia) in the clouds" necessarily refer to a personal coming to earth? We should not read that thought into the text.
That has nothing to do with what we are talking about concerning the GT being a future event from 66-70. But for the record, his coming is the same as the so-called 'parousia'. That coming is his 'second coming'. (here)
________________
Put the above aside and tell me if the GC came out of the 66-70 period or do does the GC come out of a future GT that is said to occur? (here)
may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.
what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.
now the wt is saying that's not enough.
Why did you leave off verse 26...
[24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.] cf. [ 25 “Also, there will be signs in the sun and moon and stars, and on the earth anguish of nations not knowing the way out because of the roaring of the sea and its agitation. 26 People will become faint out of fear and expectation of the things coming upon the inhabited earth, for the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 27 And then they will see the Son of man coming in a cloud with power and great glory. 28 But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.”]
[ 7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels]
Has Jesus arrived yet.... what tribulation does he give relief/deliverance from?
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Why do you not address who the GC is that comes out the GT in Rev 7?
Does the GC come out from 66-70 period or from Rev 13:5,7,10 period? (here)
may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.
what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.
now the wt is saying that's not enough.
Actually Duran, I don't have to explain anything about Revelation or Thessalonians. My claim is that the GT of Matthew 24, Mark 13 and Luke 21 is fait accompli to which Luke 21:20,24 attests. Now if you can disprove this claim, or support a different future interpretation, I am all ears.
LOL! You don't want to explain Rev and Thess because you know what they show.
Nobody that believes the GT is future disagrees that there was fulfillment in 66-70ce, etc. But that does not mean that there is not a fuller far-reaching fulfillment of it.
It is clear you have no clue what you are talking about.
You said:
Absolutely clear that the GB does not know how to interpret scripture. The GT of Matthew 24 occurred and terminated in the first century with the destruction of Jerusalem. The GT was a non-repeatable local event affecting "this people" inhabiting Judea and Jerusalem.
To make it a dual prophecy, is to make Jesus speaking simultaneously, literally to His generation of believers and figuratively to ours.
Context is everything
The context of the GT leads to the destruction of the temple and the subsequent dispersal of the survivors.
If you think the GT fulfillment was limited to the destruction of the temple, then when did this part get fulfilled:
[14 “However, when you catch sight of the disgusting thing that causes desolation standing where it should not be (let the reader use discernment), then let those in Ju·deʹa begin fleeing to the mountains. 15 Let the man on the housetop not come down nor go inside to take anything out of his house; 16 and let the man in the field not return to the things behind to pick up his outer garment. 17 Woe to the pregnant women and those nursing a baby in those days! 18 Keep praying that it may not occur in wintertime; 19 for those days will be days of a tribulation such as has not occurred from the beginning of the creation that God created until that time, and will not occur again....24 “But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light, 25 and the stars will be falling out of heaven, and the powers that are in the heavens will be shaken. 26 And then they will see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.]
______________________________________
Who were the GC that came out of that GT:
[9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.13 In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.
may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.
what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.
now the wt is saying that's not enough.
can you explain when and how the following will transpire?
Why do you need that from me to answer what I asked you. I agreed with you for arguments sake that that pertains to 66-70 period as you say. And in reality, it does, it just has a dual fulfillment, which you do not believe it does. You say that time was the time of the GT and will not be repeated, that no GT/captivity by the nations will happen again in the future.
So, it is you that needs to explain the timing of Rev 13:5,7,10 -Rev 7:9,13,14 - 2 Thess 1:7-10...if they pertain to 66-70 period or a future time?
we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?
that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.
Vatican: Pope Francis is suffering from double pneumonia
Funny headline in regard to a person supposed to be a man from God and that believes he will go to heaven when he dies.
To pray for his recovery reminds me of the saying; 'Everyone wants to go to heaven, just not today'.
may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.
what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.
now the wt is saying that's not enough.
The times of the Gentiles referred to the treading down, or desolation, of first century Jerusalem, which Jesus called "the days of vengeance". In other words, it was God's mission for the Gentiles to bring judgment upon Jerusalem...The times of the Gentiles, or treading down of Jerusalem, entailed no more than a forty two month period of time, the exact duration of the Jewish-Roman War.
Let's say 66ce-70ce was that 42-month period of Rev 11:2 and that is 'the time of the gentiles'. (Luke 21:24) You claim that period was the GT.
Okay, how do you explain, that when Jesus is said to come, it is at a time when tribulation is occurring upon those that have faith in him, and they get relief from that Trib upon them when he arrives? (2 Thessalonians 1:7-10)
If the GT was during 66-70ce and if all those that listened to Jesus' warning to flee, fled, then who are the chosen ones that were still in Jerusalem that on account of them the GT had to be cut short/limited to 42 months?
And do you say that the GT mentioned in Rev 7, is the same period as 66ce-70ce GT or is it a different GT?
Lastly, has this taking place yet?
[ 5 It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. 7 It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.]
