Posts by Duran

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Duran

It appears you don't know what you believe/think/are saying.

You said this to me:

I'm looking for a scripture connecting the 8th king to a judgment period.

God's people will indeed be persecuted by the 8th king.

I do agree, that eventually there will only be two groups left, those for God and those against. The latter will receive an adverse judgment. They will be destroyed

To start, it is clear that I view the scarlet beast to be the 8th king, at the point the kings give their authority to it, which happens after it comes out of the abyss.

Likewise, the sea beast I view to be the 8th king, at the point it is given authority for 42 months, which happens after it is healed.

I think they are one in the same, just explained from two different ways, and details have to be added together to get full picture.

That said, let's keep in mind what you said in the quotes above and add that you say the image that the earth beast makes is the scarlet beast which is the 8th king.

Okay, let's 'disappear' the sea beast and just focus on your version of the 8th king.

You said:

This new beast is called the scarlet-colored wild beast (beast from the abyss). This is the beast that Jesus disposes of, alongside the false prophet (19:20).

So, you say your scarlet beast/8th king is who along with the earth beast/false prophet is thrown into the fiery lake.

[20 And the [scarlet] wild beast [8th king] was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur. 21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword that proceeded out of the mouth of the one seated on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.]

Let's now go back to your quotes above:

God's people will indeed be persecuted by the 8th king

What Scriptures in Rev can you cite to show that your scarlet/8th king will persecute God's people?

I do agree, that eventually there will only be two groups left, those for God and those against. The latter will receive an adverse judgment. They will be destroyed

What Scriptures in Rev can you cite that will bring about these two groups?

What Scriptures in Rev can you cite that shows the outcome for those that are for God?

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Duran

The rest is your mental construct of events.

LOL!

Afterwards the sea beast disappears

So, you believe that after the sea beast gets healed from is deathlike state and is then given 42 months to have authority over all people, it just disappears?

The beast receiving the death-stroke is = to the time as the beast being in the abyss. It is the time that the beast 'is not'. It's due to the beast being healed from its death like state (in both cases) that people are said to be amazed, etc.. and the names of those are not written in the book of life. How likely is it that this is happening with two different beasts?

and an image is erected in its honor by beast from the earth (13:14). Beast from the earth is also allowed to give breath to the image, so the image becomes a beast in its own right (13:15). This new beast is called the scarlet-colored wild beast (beast from the abyss).

You claim the image of the sea beast made by the earth beast is the scarlet beast (newly made image of sea beast). So how is this newly made image beast from the abyss, when/how did it go in after being created?

Also, wasn't the scarlet beast already on scene back in John's time as Rome, the 'one is'?

[ 3 And he carried me away in the power of the spirit into a wilderness. And I saw a woman sitting on a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names and that had seven heads and ten horns. 8 The wild beast that you saw was, but is not, and yet is about to ascend out of the abyss, and it is to go off into destruction. 9 “This calls for a mind that has wisdom: The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top. 10 And there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. 11 And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction.]

This is the beast that Jesus disposes of, alongside the false prophet (19:20)

Revelation 17:13,14;13:5;19:19,20

That is correct, that is how that beast (scarlet beast as the 8th king) goes off into destruction. But that is also how the sea beast goes out. It never just disappeared after the 42 months. The sea beast is who is mentioned with the false prophet (earth beast). They are the 'both' that get thrown into the fiery lake. The image never replaces the sea beast, the image is in addition too.

[3 I saw that one of its heads seemed to have been fatally wounded, but its mortal wound had been healed, and all the earth followed the wild beast with admiration. 5 It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. 11 Then I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth, and it had two horns like a lamb, but it began speaking like a dragon. 13 And it performs great signs, even making fire come down out of heaven to the earth in the sight of mankind.14 It misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that it was permitted to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. 15 And it was permitted to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who refuse to worship the image of the wild beast.]

[9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand,]

[19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur.]

[ 10 And the Devil who was misleading them was hurled into the lake of fire and sulfur, where both the wild beast and the false prophet already were; and they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.]

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Duran

Definitely not the same beast

That is an absolutely ridiculous statement to make based on what I showed.

If you follow backward what it says about the sea beast, from the timing of when and how it is thrown into the fiery lake, and those who are killed along with it at that time, you see that it comes to its end when Jesus comes (Armageddon). That means the 42-month authority given it, which during such time all people on earth have to either support it/take the MOTB or reject it/refuse the MOTB, this period would precede Jesus' coming, leading right into it.

Given what authority is given to this sea beast during that time, and the judgment that is giving to those that take the MOTB (death) and those that refuse it (life as part of the GC or ruling with Jesus),

tell me what role does the 8th king play???

Is 8th king's time before the sea beast gets his 42 months or is it concurrent with???

How/when does the 8th king come to his end???

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Sea beast

[5 It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. 7 It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.]

[11 Then I saw another wild beast ascending out of the earth,... 16 It puts under compulsion all people—the small and the great, the rich and the poor, the free and the slaves—that these should be marked on their right hand or on their forehead, 17 and that nobody can buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name.]

[9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of His wrath, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb.]

[19 And I saw the wild beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the one seated on the horse and against his army. 20 And the wild beast was caught, and along with it the false prophet that performed in front of it the signs with which he misled those who received the mark of the wild beast and those who worship its image. While still alive, they both were hurled into the fiery lake that burns with sulfur. 21 But the rest were killed off with the long sword that proceeded out of the mouth of the one seated on the horse. And all the birds were filled with their flesh.]

[4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.]

[9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands.13 In response one of the elders said to me: “These who are dressed in the white robes, who are they and where did they come from?” 14 So right away I said to him: “My lord, you are the one who knows.” And he said to me: “These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.]

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Duran

I'm looking for a scripture connecting the 8th king to a judgment period. Also you confuse the 8th king, "the beast that was and is not," i.e., beast from the abyss (17:8, 11) with beast from the sea (13:1, 2).

No there is no confusion about the two because they are one in the same.

Putting the 8th king (beast from abyss) aside for the moment.

The beast from the sea and the beast from the earth (false prophet) come to their end when Jesus comes. Also, at that time, all that took the MOTB, etc come to their end.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>42 months>>>>>>>Jesus comes>>>>>>>

In order for that to take place at that time, logically the 42 months of the sea beast has to take place where people are taking or refusing the MOTB, etc. This is whereby the use of this sea beast, the choice has to be made by all people, which they will be judged by, is to support the beast and reject God or worship God and reject the beast.

If you support the beast (reject God), you will be among those that are killed and left as bird food when Jesus comes. If you reject the beast (worship God) you will undergo GT during that time under the sea beast 42 months, but you will end up part of the GC or one of the ones that rule with Jesus when he comes.

Those 42 months under the sea beast serve as the judgment by God on his house to find who really are his people. Obviously, those who support the sea beast are not God's people and they will receive their judgment of death (being bird food) by Jesus when he comes.

Those that refuse the sea beast, worshipping God instead, these are his people and are judged to receive their reward of life being part of the GC or ruling with Jesus.

_____________________

The sea beast 'was' - gets a death-stroke/'is not' - then gets its death-stoke healed - at which point it is given authority for 42 months and those that follow/support the sea beast, their names are not in the book of life. Also, this sea beast and the kings of the earth come against Jesus and are killed by him, etc. (Revelation 13:3,5,8;19:19,20)

>>>sea beast 'was'>>>is not>>healed given authority 42months>>Jesus comes>>>>

Scarlet beast 'was' - goes into the abyss/'is not'- then comes out of the abyss - at which point the kings give their authority to it making it the 8th king and those that follow/support 8th king, their names are not in the book of life. Also, it and the kings come against Jesus and are killed by him, etc. (Revelation 17:8,11-14,17)

>>>scarlet beast 'was'>>>is not>>comes out of abyss given authority>>Jesus comes>>>

Right now, the sea/scarlet beast is in its was/is state as the 7th king. When it receives it death-stroke/goes into the abyss and then gets healed/comes out of the abyss, it will become the 8th king. Then it goes off into destruction/thrown into the fiery lake by Jesus. Revelation 17:11,14;19:19,20

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Duran

And for the life of me I cannot discover the "judgement" of the 8th king. Perhaps you can enlighten us as to the scripture you are referring to.

Are you kidding me? Are you clicking on the hyperlinks? I always include Scriptures in whatever I say.

What are you not understanding in regard to a judgment brought on by use of the 8th king?

You say:

I do agree, that eventually there will only be two groups left, those for God and those against.

How/when do you suppose these two groups come about if not by the 8th king?

For me the beasts represent governing entities, same as in Daniel.

What does that have to do with what I have said? I didn't say they were not.

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Duran

The Scriptures inform us of judgment to come.... So when can we expect His judgment to commence?

As shown in the Scriptures above, 1 Peter 4:17 shows there are two judgments to come. The first being the judgement on what is said to be the 'house of God' (the world). In that case, God uses the 8th king to carry it out. His rule comes upon the whole world and results in bringing about two groups. Those (weeds) that support the 8th king, thereby reject God/Jesus (apostasy) and those (fine seed/wheat) that reject the 8th king in support of God/Jesus. Those that reject the 8th king will have GT during that period. These are God's/Jesus' true people who will be enduring faithfully waiting for Jesus to come to deliver/recuse them from the 8th king's rule.

When Jesus does come after that appointed 42-month period of GT, then the 8th king and all that supported him will receive their judgment of death/killed off. All that rejected the 8th king will be the GC and those that rule with Jesus. (The sun, moon, star event occurs at the point between the 8th king's rule ending and Jesus coming. The two groups seeing that sign react in two ways based on who they supported during the 8th king rule.)

[17 For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the outcome be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God?]

(During the appointed time is when they who are rejecting the 8th king will be suffering tribulation but then get relief. Then the outcome for those that support the 8th king will result in their destruction.)

[7 But you who suffer tribulation will be given relief along with us at the revelation of the Lord Jesus from heaven with his powerful angels 8 in a flaming fire, as he brings vengeance on those who do not know God and those who do not obey the good news about our Lord Jesus. 9 These very ones will undergo the judicial punishment of everlasting destruction from before the Lord and from the glory of his strength, 10 at the time when he comes to be glorified in connection with his holy ones and to be regarded in that day with wonder among all those who exercised faith, because the witness we gave met with faith among you.]

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Yes, I believe the parousia will occur, hopefully soon, when Christ will judge the world and separate the wheat from the chaff.

The so-called 'parousia' is the same as Jesus' 'second coming' and does not take place until after the 8th king rule.

As already said above...the 8th king is the means by which the world is judged to start. The wheat and chaff are separated first by their own choice on who they choose to support, God/Jesus or the 8th king. Then when Jesus comes after the 8th king rule, he will do away with those that chose the 8th king as well as the 8th king himself.

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Duran

[12 “The ten horns that you saw mean ten kings who have not yet received a kingdom, but they do receive authority as kings for one hour with the wild beast. 13 These have one thought, so they give their power and authority to the wild beast. 17 For God put it into their hearts to carry out his thought, yes, to carry out their one thought by giving their kingdom to the wild beast, until the words of God will have been accomplished.]

[6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. 7 He was saying in a loud voice: “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of judgment by him has arrived, so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and the springs of water.”]

[ 17 For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the outcome be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God? ]

[24 And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled.]

[ 2 But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months.]

[ 3 I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy for 1,260 days dressed in sackcloth.”] [7 When they have finished their witnessing, the wild beast that ascends out of the abyss will wage war with them and conquer them and kill them.]

[ 5 It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months. 7 It was permitted to wage war with the holy ones and conquer them, and it was given authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation. 10 If anyone is meant for captivity, he will go into captivity. If anyone will kill with the sword, he must be killed with the sword. This is where it calls for endurance and faith on the part of the holy ones.]

23

In the past 24 hours, the world has been breaking into fragments. What will be the Outcome??

by liam in

new german chancellor merz has won the election.

trump congratulated his victory but the response was not what trump expected.

merz condemned america, saying that america seemed to be aligning with russia.. he also expressed doubts about nato’s future.. he is now advocating that germany must gain independence from usa.

Duran

sounding exactly like W.C. Fields!

LOL!

"Apparently" This Kid is Awesome, Steals the Show During Interview

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Duran

No, you are deflecting. We are talking about Matthew 24 and the generation that was warned when to flee to the mountains beyond Judea. And you have not answered a single question I asked on the subject.

LOL! You have no clue to what you are talking about...

Your very first comment on this was:

Absolutely clear that the GB does not know how to interpret scripture. The GT of Matthew 24 occurred and terminated in the first century with the destruction of Jerusalem. The GT was a non-repeatable local event affecting "this people" inhabiting Judea and Jerusalem.
To make it a dual prophecy, is to make Jesus speaking simultaneously, literally to His generation of believers and figuratively to ours. And we are left trying to figure out what praying our flight will not be in winter or on a Sabbath means. And what Jerusalem and Judea means and what the mountains mean and what not going home to pick up your jacket when roofing means...etc.

To which I replied:

It does have a future application according to the Bible. But the parts that you are referring to do not apply.

We are talking about the GT pertaining to a future event that leads to Jesus' second coming.

Rev shows that the 42 months living under the 8th king while refusing him, is the future GT that the GC and those that rule with Jesus will come out of.

Also, Thessalonians shows that when Jesus comes, it is during a time of Trib upon those that have faith in him, they are in need of relief.

There is no question according to what the Bible states, GT is future and leads to Jesus coming.

The Bible may just be all BS which in that case none of this will ever come to be, but regardless this is still what the Bible states.

80

Flee to the Mountains......What Mountains?

by liam in

may 2025 study article 21 seek the city that will remain.

what i remember was, when you see the romans, flee to the mountains.

now the wt is saying that's not enough.

Duran

I'll leave Revelation to scholars Duran. But do you agree that this generation in the gospels is singularly about Christ's own generation?

LOL! Way to deflect Van.

We are not talking about 'generation', we are talking about there being or not being, a future 42 month said GT after 66-70.

Do you really need scholars to know if the following has happened:

Rev 17:13;13:5,7,10;14:6,7,9-10;7:9,13,14;20:4;19:20,21