It must be Tony or some other JW, because there is no way it could be a catholic pope, being that they are the Peter's of today and Peter would not allow that.
Posts by Duran
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13Does the GB Desire to be Worshipped?
by Sea Breeze inhow did i miss this after studying the rev.
book 3 times:.
obeying christ’s kingdom rule, they (the great crowd) hope to inherit its blessings here on earth.
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46
the pope has died
by stan livedeath inmost people on the planet have heard of the pope.. most people on the planet have never heard of the governing body..
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Duran
You may claim to know what Jesus felt. But we have His words. And they say otherwise.
Can you comprehend what you read?
You respond to me with:
The passage says He was “troubled” and that He “groaned within Himself” not because He questioned the reality of resurrection, but because He entered fully into the suffering of those around Him. Christ wept because those He loved were weeping. To suggest that He cried only because of their ignorance about what was about to happen is to reduce His empathy to mere performance or condescension.
I know the above, I cited the verse showing why he was troubled, and I acknowledged that he wept because he felt pity for those that were grieving. All you are doing is repeating back to me what I said:
Why was Jesus emotional and crying at the tomb then?
[ 32 When Mary arrived where Jesus was and caught sight of him, she fell at his feet and said to him: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” 33 When Jesus saw her weeping and the Jews who had come with her weeping, he groaned within himself and became troubled.]
He was emotional at the tomb because he felt pity for those that were grieving Lazarus. They felt the true emotional pain that humans feel over the loss of a loved one in death. And Jesus felt troubled over knowing what they felt
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46
the pope has died
by stan livedeath inmost people on the planet have heard of the pope.. most people on the planet have never heard of the governing body..
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Duran
AAH aqwsed, I love that you take the time to read what I write. You're a swell guy! xoxo
Christ Himself, who knew better than anyone the reality of resurrection, wept at the tomb of Lazarus (John 11:35). Was Jesus confused? Emotionally inconsistent?
[ 34 He said: “Where have you laid him?” They said to him: “Lord, come and see.” 35 Jesus gave way to tears. 36 At that the Jews began to say: “See, what affection he had for him!” 37 But some of them said: “Could not this man who opened the eyes of the blind man prevent this one from dying?]
Was Jesus crying because of Lazarus or was it the Jews that made it about him. Jesus knew he was about to resurrect Lazarus. He was not dead in Jesus' emotional view; he considered him as just sleeping and he was going to wake him up. Not really something for him to cry about there, is it?
Why was Jesus emotional and crying at the tomb then?
[ 32 When Mary arrived where Jesus was and caught sight of him, she fell at his feet and said to him: “Lord, if you had been here, my brother would not have died.” 33 When Jesus saw her weeping and the Jews who had come with her weeping, he groaned within himself and became troubled.]
He was emotional at the tomb because he felt pity for those that were grieving Lazarus. They felt the true emotional pain that humans feel over the loss of a loved one in death. And Jesus felt troubled over knowing what they felt and knowing that they don't know what he is about to do and what joy they are about to have when he brings Lazarus back.
[11 After he said these things, he added: “Lazʹa·rus our friend has fallen asleep, but I am traveling there to awaken him.” 12 The disciples then said to him: “Lord, if he is sleeping, he will get well.” 13 Jesus, however, had spoken about his death. But they imagined he was speaking about taking rest in sleep. 14 Then Jesus said to them plainly: “Lazʹa·rus has died, 15 and I rejoice for your sake that I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”]
I so look forward to your reply back. you wise, wise, man you! xoxo
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46
the pope has died
by stan livedeath inmost people on the planet have heard of the pope.. most people on the planet have never heard of the governing body..
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Duran
There are lots of dead souls in heaven, thinking, feeling, remembering, talking etc.
There are living souls/beings that can, think, feel, remember, talk, etc., but no dead ones that can do those things. There are no dead souls/persons/beings in heaven. Matthew 22:32
In regard to you citing Rev 6:9-11, none of those said souls/persons are in heaven now, nor are they alive now, nor did that majority of them even exist when John was given that vision. You need to read Rev 20:4 with it.
[9 When he opened the fifth seal, I saw underneath the altar the souls of those slaughtered because of the word of God and because of the witness they had given. 10 They shouted with a loud voice, saying: “Until when, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, are you refraining from judging and avenging our blood on those who dwell on the earth?” 11 And a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer, until the number was filled of their fellow slaves and their brothers who were about to be killed as they had been.]
[4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years. 6 Happy and holy is anyone having part in the first resurrection; over these the second death has no authority, but they will be priests of God and of the Christ, and they will rule as kings with him for the 1,000 years.]
Notice that those that still needed to be killed are the ones that live during the time of the 8th king/MOTB period. This time is still future; therefore, no way were they on hand when John saw that vision. And even as it pertains to the said souls seen that had been 'executed for the witness they gave', it would have been a very limited amount killed at that time from Jesus' ascending, when after they gave a witness about him to when John wrote Rev.
All who will rule with Jesus will be killed for their faith in God and Jesus and a number of them will be on hand and killed during the 8th king rule. Then when the numbered is filled they ALL will be resurrected at the same time in what is said to be the 'first resurrection'. Them being told to rest longer denotes that they have been resting already. This means from the vision we know they are resting/dead when they are killed and will continue as such until the full number is filled during the 8th king rule.
Speaking of all needing to be killed for their faith in God and Jesus to be chosen to rule with Jesus. The GB just does not what to speak about that fact. Joseph Rutherford died January 8, 1942 of colon cancer. He was living at Beth Sarim at that time. Guy Pierce died March 18, 2014, of a stroke. He was living at Bethel. Neither one of them lived to go through the time of the MOTB and neither one of them were killed for their faith. Based on what Rev 20:4 says on who are the ones that will have part in the 'first resurrection' and rule with Jesus and what Paul (Philippians 3:10,11) says, does any here think that Rutherford or Pierce are chosen ones? I don't! Now apply that same criteria to ALL current GB members and ALL that have died between Rutherford and Pierce.
But wait there's more. Apply that same criteria to the 5 popes there have been just in my lifetime so far. Will any of them have part in the 'first resurrection' and rule with Jesus? I don't think so!
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All live at Vatican at the time of their death even in the summer palace they have for them.
Giovanni Enrico (Pope Paul VI)
suffered a heart attack while listening to a mass in the private chambers of his Castle Gandolfo summer palace…Doctors were administering oxygen to the pontiff in a futile attempt to keep him breathing when he died, Vatican officials said. 6 August 1978
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Albino Luciani (Pope John Paul I)
On 29 September 1978, on what would have been the 35th day of his pontificate, John Paul I was found dead in his bed with reading material and a bedside lamp still lit. He had suffered a heart attack the night before. 28 September 1978
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Karol Wojtyła (Pope John Paul II)
John Paul II died in his private apartment of heart failure 2 April 2005
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Joseph Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI)
Benedict died on 31 December 2022 due to cardiogenic shock, resulting from respiratory failure
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Jorge Bergoglio (Pope Francis)
21 April 2025 died in his residence - death was caused by a stroke, which led to coma and irreversible cardiac arrest
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46
the pope has died
by stan livedeath inmost people on the planet have heard of the pope.. most people on the planet have never heard of the governing body..
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Duran
The scriptures I cited provide more than enough evidence to answer your questions. Why did you not comment on any of them?
I did not comment because I wanted to give you a chance to explain your reasoning. The Scriptures you cited did not answer any of the questions I asked you and I am not surprised you are not willing to answer them yourself. I knew you would not be willing to do so!
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The bible says that death happens when a person's soul leaves their body.
What you are referring to as 'soul leaving the body' is a person dying taking their last breath of life. But you are correct, at that point when that occurs is when a person dies. They are then dead, that's death. They do not 'think, feel, remember, talk etc.' at that point. If they could do any of that then they would not be dead, they would still be alive, the opposite of dead. Ecclesiastes 9:5,6
The Scripture you cited about Rachel (Gen. 35:18,19) shows that she was in the process of dying and with her 'last breath' she called out the name, then she died.
Up until she died, she could 'think, feel, remember, talk etc.', after she died, she could do none of that.
The Scripture you cited about the girl (Luke 8:50) likewise shows that she had died/stop breathing but Jesus healed/saved her causing her to breathe again, be alive. When she was dead/not breathing, not able to 'think, feel, remember, talk etc.', her parents were weeping and mourning for her.
Is Jorge in heaven right now and able to 'think, feel, remember, talk etc.'?
Is every pope since Peter all in heaven right now and all able to 'think, feel, remember, talk etc.'?
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1606. ekpneo - (lit: I breathe out), I breathe my last, expire.
4151. pneuma Spirit, wind, breath
4982. sozo - I save, heal, preserve, rescue
[ 30 When he had received the sour wine, Jesus said: “It has been accomplished!” and bowing his head, he gave up his spirit.]
[37 But Jesus let out a loud cry and expired.]
[ 18 As she breathed her last—for she was dying—she named her son Ben-Oni. But his father named him Benjamin. 19 So Rachel died and was buried on the way to Ephrath (that is, Bethlehem).]
[ 28 Isaac lived a hundred and eighty years. 29Then he breathed his last and died and was gathered to his people,]
[50 But Jesus having heard, answered him, “Fear not; only believe, and she will be saved.”54 And He having taken hold her of hand, called out, saying, “Child, arise!” 55 And her spirit returned, and she arose immediately; and He directed to be given to her to eat.]
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13
Does the GB Desire to be Worshipped?
by Sea Breeze inhow did i miss this after studying the rev.
book 3 times:.
obeying christ’s kingdom rule, they (the great crowd) hope to inherit its blessings here on earth.
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Duran
How did I miss this after studying the Rev. book 3 times:
Obeying Christ’s Kingdom rule, they (THE GREAT CROWD) hope to inherit its blessings here on earth. They come to Jesus’ anointedbrotherspopes and “bow down” to them,spirituallyphysically speaking, because ‘they have heard that God is with them. - Revelation Book Ch. 12 under the subtitle : “They Will Bow Down to You”
Compare with ACTS 10 25 & 26 when Peter would not tolerate a man bowing down to him.
- As Peter entered the house, Cornelius met him and fell at his feet in reverence. 26But Peter made him get up. “Stand up,” he said, “I am only a man myself.” -
46
the pope has died
by stan livedeath inmost people on the planet have heard of the pope.. most people on the planet have never heard of the governing body..
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Duran
Do you have a clue to what you are saying? Putting aside for a moment that all you said is nonsense, I want to at least engage in your reasoning.
According to your thinking, is Jorge in heaven right now thinking, feeling, remembering, talking etc.?
Is he alive or dead in heaven?
Does he have a physical body or is he a spirit being?
Is he whole?
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Is Jesus in heaven right now thinking, feeling, remembering, talking etc.?
Is he alive or dead in heaven?
Does he have a physical body or is he a spirit being?
Is he whole?
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Is Michael the archangel in heaven right now thinking, feeling, remembering, talking etc.?
Is he alive or dead in heaven?
Does he have a physical body or is he a spirit being?
Is he whole?
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46
the pope has died
by stan livedeath inmost people on the planet have heard of the pope.. most people on the planet have never heard of the governing body..
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Duran
mocking the dead
Ahh, so he is dead. He is not alive in heaven.
insulting people who mourn
There was no insulting on my part of people for the fact that they mourn. My insulting was directly based to people that claim he is alive in heaven but still say he is dead and therefore feel the need to mourn him.
If he is alive in heaven, then he is not dead. Rejoice you people!
If he is dead, then he is not alive in heaven. Mourn you people!
You dismiss not only Catholicism but every form of religion, then hypocritically wield the Bible like a weapon
That's right, the Bible is my weapon (made up BS or not) and according to the Bible, the field is the WORLD. The field IS NOT the catholic church, nor the WTS, nor ANY other claiming to be God's field/people.
People that are wheat and weeds are found ALL over the WORLD, no matter their beliefs/faith/religion now. When the hour of test comes, it comes upon the WHOLE entirely WORLD, ALL people.
[38 the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one,]
[10 Because you kept the word about my endurance, I will also keep you from the hour of test, which is to come upon the entire inhabited earth, to put to the test those dwelling on the earth.]
[6 And I saw another angel flying in midheaven, and he had everlasting good news to declare to those who dwell on the earth, to every nation and tribe and tongue and people. 7 He was saying in a loud voice: “Fear God and give him glory, because the hour of judgment by him has arrived, so worship the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and the springs of water.”][9 Another angel, a third, followed them, saying in a loud voice: “If anyone worships the wild beast and its image and receives a mark on his forehead or on his hand, 10 he will also drink of the wine of the anger of God that is poured out undiluted into the cup of His wrath, and he will be tormented with fire and sulfur in the sight of the holy angels and in the sight of the Lamb. 11 And the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest, those who worship the wild beast and its image and whoever receives the mark of its name. 12 Here is where it calls for endurance on the part of the holy ones, those who keep the commandments of God and hold fast to the faith of Jesus.”] cf. Rev 13:5,7,10
[9 After this I saw, and look! a great crowd, which no man was able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, dressed in white robes; and there were palm branches in their hands. 10 And they keep shouting with a loud voice, saying: “Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb.”][14 ...“These are the ones who come out of the great tribulation, and they have washed their robes and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.]
[4 And I saw thrones, and those who sat on them were given authority to judge. Yes, I saw the souls of those executed for the witness they gave about Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had not worshipped the wild beast or its image and had not received the mark on their forehead and on their hand. And they came to life and ruled as kings with the Christ for 1,000 years.]
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the pope has died
by stan livedeath inmost people on the planet have heard of the pope.. most people on the planet have never heard of the governing body..
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Duran
You say, “If one believes the Bible, then that one's beliefs should be from the Bible.” And yet your beliefs — sneering mockery, public gloating over a man’s death, vulgar language, and theological incoherence — come not from the Bible but from your own wounded pride and unresolved rage. Where in Scripture does it tell you to laugh at death, to curse those who mourn, to spit on the dignity of another human being?
I really don't understand how you can be as stupid as you are. There was no mockery and gloating from me over his death. You don't know anything about me, and you don't know how to comprehend what you read. I actually embrace death as I see it as the end of suffering. So, if anything, if I were to be saying something negative about your pope, I would have said that I am sorry he died, I wish he were still alive in the hospital suffering from pneumonia with death evading him.
But I never made my comment pertaining to him and his death as about that I am glad he is dead, or I want him to suffer. The name of this topic is 'the pope has died'. So, if any post on here it is going to be in regard to that topic. My comment came from the fact that all day long I could not have on a news channel without seeing coverage of his death and speaking about Catholics mourning his death.
Now I realize that you are a moron, and you cannot understand the fact, that when I hear that, it brings to thought that if they think he is in heaven now, then why mourn and do what they are going to do for 9 days. Why not say, 'wow how wonderful, he was just here in the hospital going through so much and here weak in the wheelchair, but now he is in heaven, actually with his Jesus God, wow so happy for him.'
The shirt comment mocks you living Catholics, not Jorge the person. Saying you are happy he died, should mean to a Catholic that he is no longer suffering in this world, but is now in heaven, happy, and with God. But from what I see on TV coverage is that his life came to an end and everyone is sad and mourning him as if he is not alive right now in heaven. I said nothing on a personal level about a person mourning the loss of someone. I am saying something about the fact that people are not acting in a way that goes along with what they claim to believe.
Why didn't Jorge say, 'when I die, don't mourn me, but rejoice that I am going to the Father. And don't waste time and money on a funeral, give any money that you would have used for that, give it to the needy. And just cremate my body and dump it in the ocean.'
No, but he didn't say that did he. Gee, I wonder what the angel that spoke to John is thinking right now while seeing what is going down here on earth for the next 9 days. Do you think that angel and Jorge are watching together? Do you think Jorge is watching with Karol seeing who has a bigger funeral?
If you were truly critical of the GB, you would have already switched to some scholarly translation instead of the NWT a long time ago, for example I recommended NRSVue to you a long time ago (not even is it not Catholic one), instead you use the NWT's falsifications to support your JW theological bias.
What nonsense! So, I can say that the GB are liars, they were not chosen by Jesus in 1919, everything they say about 607/1914 is false, but yet because I use the NWT to show their own false teachings, somehow that means that I am not really critical of them?
So according to you, I can say:
[The WTS says that Babylon was called to account in 539. Jehovah said he was going to call them to account when/after 70 years have been fulfilled/completed, therefore 539 must have been the 70th year, making 609 the beginning of those 70 years. So, the 70 years are 609-539 and not 607-537.]
But if I use the NWT in showing verse 11 and 12 then I don't mean what I said about the 70 years in proving the WTS wrong, only if I use the URSVue do I mean it?
[ 11 And all this land will be reduced to ruins and will become an object of horror, and these nations will have to serve the king of Babylon for 70 years.”’12 “‘But when 70 years have been fulfilled, I will call to account the king of Babylon and that nation for their error,’ declares Jehovah, ‘and I will make the land of the Chal·deʹans a desolate wasteland for all time.]
[NRSVue 11 This whole land shall become a ruin and a waste, and these nations shall serve the king of Babylon seventy years. 12 Then after seventy years are completed, I will punish the king of Babylon and that nation, the land of the Chaldeans, for their iniquity, says the Lord, making the land an everlasting waste.]
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46
the pope has died
by stan livedeath inmost people on the planet have heard of the pope.. most people on the planet have never heard of the governing body..
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Duran
You pretend you never asked us to “compare what Jehovah’s Witnesses show in the Bible.” But your whole line of thought is that comparison. You quote exclusively from the NWT, and all your comments are filled with links to the their website.
Your theology of death is a confused mess of contradiction and coldness. Let’s walk through your logic:- You claim it's “illogical” to mourn a man who went to heaven.
- Yet you don’t believe he went to heaven.
- And you think all religions (including Catholicism and JWs) are false.
- But you still quote the Bible as your supposed authority.
LOL!!!!! What a F%*cking fool you are.
First off you dip shit, this site is for ex and current JWs that don't believe the GB. It is not for Catholics or their beliefs. Why are you even here?
That being the case, why would I not quote from their NWT and have links to quotes from their website? We here use the WTS's own words to show their LIES.
And how retarded can you be that you actually knowingly point out that I believe all religions are false and I quote the Bible as my authority and yet you don't understand that concept? Whoever does not believe in the Bible that is fine, I can understand that. But whoever does claim to believe it, it should be the sole authority of their beliefs. Their beliefs should not be based upon what a group of men in NY say or what a little ridiculous man in a white dress and a little white cap says.
If one believes the Bible, then that one's beliefs should be from the Bible.
[ 4 Beloved ones, do not believe every inspired statement, but test the inspired statements to see whether they originate with God, for many false prophets have gone out into the world.]
[ 11 Now these were more noble-minded than those in Thes·sa·lo·niʹca, for they accepted the word with the greatest eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily to see whether these things were so.]
And YES, I do not believe he went to heaven, and I think it is foolish for people who think he did go to heaven, to mourn him.
My dad died 4 years ago. How foolish would it be if going back to that time when he was buried, and I was there at his grave the day of, on my knees crying and praying. Then behind me he walks up and touches me on the shoulder, and I look up at him and say 'oh even though you are here and alive, I have to turn and keep praying and mourning you for 9 days because you died and are buried right here in this grave, even though you have been resurrected and are alive now.'
