Halcon

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Posts by Halcon

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  126

  Overlapping Generation

  by pandorasbox1914 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the september 2015 broadcast had david splane explain matthew 24:34 “truly, i say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place”.

  his explanation of this scripture was by means of a chart to indicate an overlapping generation.. .

  no scripture was used to show the overlapping generation concept, and as a result it makes no sense.. to illustrate how crazy this concept is, look at the lyrics of the song my generation.. my generation.

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  Halcon

  Is this still an official teaching on the website?
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  18

  Romans 10: 9 Simple Salvation - Not So Fast Says WT.

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "if you confess with your mouth that jesus is lord and believe in your heart that god raised him from the dead, you will be saved".

  - romans 10: 9. i find it interesting that this simple requirement for salvation has been a specific target of wt since their beginning.. first, jw's call jehovah lord, not jesus.

  the fact that scripture calls jesus the king of kings and lord of lords doesn't seem to matter to them.

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  Halcon

  So, if you are good with a man who resurrected himself from the dead being the Lord of your life, that's about all there is to getting saved. Living the Christian life is a 3 step process though.1.Justification2. Sanctification3.Glorification

  How would you define each of these steps seabreeze?
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  18

  Romans 10: 9 Simple Salvation - Not So Fast Says WT.

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  "if you confess with your mouth that jesus is lord and believe in your heart that god raised him from the dead, you will be saved".

  - romans 10: 9. i find it interesting that this simple requirement for salvation has been a specific target of wt since their beginning.. first, jw's call jehovah lord, not jesus.

  the fact that scripture calls jesus the king of kings and lord of lords doesn't seem to matter to them.

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  Halcon

  "if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved". - Romans 10:9

  How would you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord? Is it simply stating it out loud?

  I'm curious as to why this step would be necessary if you believe it in your heart.
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  34

  The snake of Genesis 3:1

  by Halcon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we've got some really knowledgeable members on here so i have a question for them and everybody.

  what was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of genesis 3:1?

  currently one can read words in english translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.. i'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

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  Halcon

  Kaleb, thank you for responding with much detail.

  The bits about the Torah ending with Moses East of Eden in relation to the events described in Genesis are fascinating. Interestingly, while reading your comments I felt that some parts were familiar even tho I couldn't tell you why. Perhaps I had a very basic and very general idea about the purpose of the Law, altho it was very much like a puzzle piece way over on the side of the table and seldom thought of. And this is after reading the Torah at least 10 times. Altho I read it for mainly spiritual purposes, not so much for history. Your explanations help put pieces of the puzzle together so I appreciate it.

  I do place greater importance on the 'spirit' and meaning of a supposedly literal event or thing. To me, this is the realm of God.

  Did a literal talking snake exist? It doesn't matter. But what was insinuated by it, whatever it (the snake) was, does. And when you read about the concept described in Genesis 3:1 in other unrelated and unassociated sources (such as with Plato) it is my personal belief that there is a spiritual truth underneath (intentional or not) all the words and symbolisms. In this case, the concept of man's inferiority to God vs man's equality with God (equality sometimes accomplished by reducing God to the level of man).

  Altho the words of Genesis 3:1 themselves can be easily discarded, as they usually are, their implication is felt throughout history precisely because it's a thing related to the part of man that is intellectual, conceptual, psychological.

  Instead of performing a "mitzvah" or a good deed, Adam and Eve do what is wrong. Instead of living up to their potential in the "image of God," they ruin this reflection and end up being cast out in shame. It isn't literal.

  This thought implies that indeed Adam wasn't God. That perhaps he could live up to a potential. Wether literal or not, the concept of the questions brought up stands. We know the literal flesh perishes. But what about the mind and spirit? God said they too will perish, whereas the snake said no they wouldn't.

  It's a question that actually doesn't need any symbolisms although they perhaps help.
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  19

  A fun moment

  by Vidiot in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  my wife of many years is more-or-less pomo, but she still (nominally) believes in jehovah and the bible.. she raised her eyebrows when she realized the full scope of the csa problem… rolled her eyes when letto the clown called babies “little enemies of god”… but today, we apparently crossed a real threshold….

  …her response to the governing body being referred to as “our future kings” was….

  …“what????!!!!!”.

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  Halcon

  Im assuming they're basing this on Revelation 5:10?
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  34

  The snake of Genesis 3:1

  by Halcon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we've got some really knowledgeable members on here so i have a question for them and everybody.

  what was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of genesis 3:1?

  currently one can read words in english translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.. i'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

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  Halcon

  Kaleb, a couple of questions if you please.

  The mythology of "being like God" in Genesis is about something Adam and Eve already were. The narrative is about the Jews losing the Promised Land due to their breaking the Mosaic Law covenant. Paradise represents the land of Israel, Adam and Eve are the forebears of Abraham and Sarah (not necessarily all humans), they are caretakers of Paradise or the Promised Land, assigned as such by God.

  What I am understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that the Law directly in relation to the promised land took precedent over everything...even (and perhaps wasn't even close) defining and understanding what God is.

  Which comes across to me as a reversal of sorts (I could be misinterpreting the general convention here too), which is to first establish clearly who or what has authority then present its laws.

  It would seem that understanding the who or what would naturally motivate obedience to the laws. It seems simply human nature to expect this (vs obeying a law from someone or something that is clearly hidden and utterly unrelatable to the degree you are describing it in Judaism).

  They were already created in the "image of God" as Genesis 1 explains, being "like God" in every way. But unlike in Genesis chapter 1 where God rests on the Sabbath, thus obeying the Mosaic Law, the Jews did not do this, thus not reflecting God's image in themselves.

  Here, I perceive, occurred a separation of sorts between the state of being like God and what Adam became afterwards. Am I understanding that Adam was already the fullest state of being God (in every way as understood in Judaism)?

  And if he was, how does Judaism differentiate God from Adam?
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  34

  The snake of Genesis 3:1

  by Halcon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we've got some really knowledgeable members on here so i have a question for them and everybody.

  what was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of genesis 3:1?

  currently one can read words in english translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.. i'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

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  Halcon

  Vidiot -Every hero needs a nemesis.

  An inevitability, or perhaps even a full blown necessity, arising out of free will?
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  34

  The snake of Genesis 3:1

  by Halcon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we've got some really knowledgeable members on here so i have a question for them and everybody.

  what was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of genesis 3:1?

  currently one can read words in english translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.. i'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

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  Halcon

  Plato was born in 428 BCE. He did not read, study or teach the Hebrew text. In fact, there is no textual evidence which shows any early Greek philosopher (from Thales to Epicurus) quoting or commenting on The Old Testament. Both Phythagoras and Plato were reported by some to have traveled to Israel and the greater Middle East but there is no reliable textual evidence which proves this.

  I believe I'd read this as well, and found it very interesting in relation to our comments.

  How unlikely was it that an Athenian (albeit Plato) coul essentially come to the same spiritual philosophical conclusions in regards to the distinction between the physical body and spiritual one as the ones in the Torah as summarized/symbolized by the snake of Genesis?

  Plato asserts that the truest reality was in the Forms, and therefore the human being should strive to attain to this enlightenment. The material world was inferior to the spiritual in his philosophy. Plotinus, a self described pure platonist, centuries later goes on to explicitly describe that man's responsibility is to climb the chain of existence until man sheds his inferior material body and his essence incorporates into the same substance as the One or God.

  You wouldn't be accused of being farfetched to think that these platonists plagiarized the words of the snake of Genesis. Yet, there's nothing to indicate they had any knowledge of Genesis.

  Is this purely coincidental?

  Kaleb, in your studies when does this concept of man being compelled to "rise" to be God and godlike first appear? I'm assuming it was neither the Torah or its contemporary authors.
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  34

  The snake of Genesis 3:1

  by Halcon in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  we've got some really knowledgeable members on here so i have a question for them and everybody.

  what was the earliest adjective used to describe the snake of genesis 3:1?

  currently one can read words in english translations like 'cunning' and 'crafty'....but in other languages you see words like 'wise' and astute...which convey a completely different idea.. i'm wondering what may have been the earliest and most accurate adjective known or used.

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  Halcon

  It was always my impression that Balaam had little inclination to follow the Mosaic Law, unlike the person of Eve, and was rather painted as a man mostly motivated by personal gain. I'm curious as to how his character was used as a stand-in for the Jew who was naturally motivated to follow the Law.

  In both Genesis and Numbers the "speaking animal" is simply a stand-in for the Jewish conscience telling the Jew not to break any of the Ten Commandments.

  Interestingly, the platonists and gnostics and variants thereafter very much insisted that "all is mental" and that the physical and sensible was but an illusion. Your conclusion that the snake of Genesis was purely a byproduct of the mind is almost identical to the conclusion of these mystical ones.

  Going a little further, what the snake claims to offer man in the garden of Eden is seemingly entirely spiritual, since God is spirit. The gnostics would say that "God is mind". Therefore, indeed any actual provable physical and historical reference became unnecessary as it was besides the point.
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  22

  My latest letter to the WT organization

  by Kosonen in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  may 14, 2024. hello brothers at the writing committee.

  many brothers and sisters are wondering when will the end come?

  we were supposed to live in the last days of the last days as brother lett told a couple of years ago.

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  Halcon

  Kosonen-9 therefore, you shepherds, hear the word of Jehovah. 10 This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘I am against the shepherds, and I will demand an accounting of them for my sheep, and I will dismiss them from feeding my sheep, and the shepherds will no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my sheep from their mouth, and they will no longer be food for them.

  Kosonen, do you believe God is using you to accomplish this?