Posts by Halcon

129

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

So, we are agreed that he is responsible for evil? For death? For curses? And thus, for suffering?

Yes, from the very first page of this thread.

Tell me, how do you know he won't evenutally condemn everyone to suffering?

We don't, just like we also don't know that he will.

It's good question to consider tho. It reveals just how powerless we are next to God.

"Also, he has put eternity into man’s heart, yet so that he cannot find out what God has done from the beginning to the end." -Ecclesiastes 3:11

129

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

Tonus-That sounds suspiciously like a personal (human) interpretation.

Are you sure?

Deuteronomy 30:19- "This day I call the heavens and the earth as witnesses against you that I have set before you life and death, blessings and curses."

He can't be any more clear that he is responsible for both.

It seems more straightforward to read it as god being responsible for evil.

What would you call death and curses?

But don't ignore that he also creates life and blessings. And in case we get confused about what we should choose (because he knows we are dust after all) this is how he finishes the same verse 19-

"Now choose life, so that you and your children may live"

129

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

Tonus -One can infer this from what is being said and described. I assume that you take this same approach with Isaiah 45:7, for example.

The verse in Isaiah reiterates what we've already agreed, that God is capable of both punishment and salvation. The fact that he creates opposites seems to equate to God being confused to you.

It's a reasonable assessment. Also, if we cannot know the mind of god, then it is presumptuous to claim that it is not his assessment as well. How do you know this?

We know at least what his word tells us. Clearly not everything we learn of him gives us a warm and fuzzy feeling. Many things are even unsettling. The creator of the Flood, nearly wiping out all of his human creation? The creator of something as terrible as hell? It's not for nothing that he refers to himself as a "fear inspiring God". In the mind of many he simply cannot be someone who incites both fear and love, and so they reject him.

129

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

Tonus -I think it's fair to say that the scriptures tell me he is confused or lying. Do you agree that it is not wrong for god to be confused or lying, since he is above human standards of behavior?

Except his word never states that he is confused or lying about our salvation or punishment. 'confused and lying' is your limited human assessment, not God's.

129

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

His supposed options: Worship me (an evil entity), or don't and I'll destroy you.

As you said, you've chosen yours.

129

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

We do have the thorny issue of god allowing a condition to exist that is in direct opposition to what he claims to want. Thus, we must assume he is confused or lying. Neither of these is a bad thing, since we cannot judge him on human terms. They simply are.

Unless the scriptures tell you he is confused or lying, then yes that is just as you stated, our own personal human assumption.

"They simply are" is correct. This is how it is. We'd like to modify the rules of God for all the reasons man is always repeating, but we can't. We will either move towards God or move away from him. He's told us he wants us to move towards him and more importantly, makes it possible.

129

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

Sanchy- Yahweh directly murdered children. If Yahweh exists, then he is evil, as per his own moral definition. I would want nothing to do with such an evil entity.

And he certainly gives you that choice.

129

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

Duran - So, you are saying that there are NO people alive right now that have choosing him that are suffering right now in their life's, is that right?

No. Tonus and I are discussing everlasting suffering and everlasting reward.

If that is the case, then does that mean that the spirit/god that is behind the writing of the Hebrew Scriptures is not the same as the one behind the Greek Scriptures?

So far, I've found no reason to believe that.

129

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

If you say that about reading a gospel but a Muslim or Morman says the same when they read the Koran or Book of Morman, do you believe god is speaking to their heart as well?

Didn't we already establish that there exists more than one spirit?

129

Just because Jehovah had to prove His Right To Rule? I don't think so!

by liam in

we get old because jehovah had to prove to all the angels that his way of ruling was the best?

that's the sorriest argument the watchtower has come up with.

https://www.youtube.com/shorts/11hz_jqjkjo.

Halcon

Tonus -I don't see what difference this makes.

Well this was what we began discussing here, why must there be any suffering and punishment? We've established that God is both capable of giving eternal punishment and eternal reward, and that the choice is ours. So will we choose heaven instead of suffering? God promises us no suffering or punishment when we choose him.

We may not like our choices, but we've already also established that he is superior to man, he dictates the rules.

Now thankfully, it appears that God also has given us our entire human lifetime to decide.