for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.
all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.
almost always with unfalsifiable claims involving vague symbolism, conveniently invisible ‘fulfilments’, and remaining failures as ‘still in the future’.
You're all over the place jeffro, confusing the spiritual with the physical.
It is 'vague symbolism' to you because you have no faith. As I stated earlier, approach the scriptures correctly, otherwise you will remain confused.
for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.
all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.
Jeffro, refer to my statement you quoted.
for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.
all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.
Interesting points jeffro.
However, the scriptures deal with spirituality first (history afterwards)...and clearly the conflict between God and the devil didn't end with Jerusalem and Rome in the first century.
The Greek word pharmakeia is a big clue, as sorcery and witchcraft could be argued is more prevalent today than ever before. It also further argues in favor of the point that Babylon the great has nothing to do with any Christian church.
for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.
all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.
Rome. Specifically, first century Rome. It’s not hard.
Yes, first century pagan Rome fit the description as aqwsed already pointed out, during the time of the apostles.
But what about today?
for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.
all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.
Of course blondie I understood that : )
The catholic church is an easy target (altho I'm not catholic) for its sheer magnitude of size and history. And it has its share of wicked individuals...as all Christian churches do. But it's in clear opposition to the devil and the antichrist. So it's hard to argue that it's Babylon the great.
for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.
all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.
In Charles Taze Russell's time he said the "papal system is Babylon the Great.
One Christian religion or church pointing to another Christian religion doesn't make much sense. Not when you have blatant non-Christian religions out there.
Babulylon the Great as the book of Revelation says is an end time capital of the New World Order. As Babylon of old that was deeply religious so it will be the Babylon the Great. Think of it as Rome the city controlling all kings of Europe in the Middle Ages.
Deeply religious yes, but which religion? It can't be a Christian church (it has to be an antichristian religion). Not to say that demonic practices are not uncommon amongst even members of Christian churches. I knew people who did tarot 'for fun' in the episcopal church I visited. There are catholics that do yoga. But this is why God says to Christians 'get out of her if you don't want share her fate' referring to Babylon the great and her spiritual practices. Meaning, Babylon the great is not a Christian church.
for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.
all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.
Tonus-it is a range of practices, can those be identified? This is important if the description is accurate and true, since it means that there is an organization/religion (or many of them) that is working in direct opposition to God himself and which God advises his followers to flee from. Without knowing who it is, how many might be following the wrong religion and dooming themselves to an eternity of suffering?
These are important questions for a Christian for sure. This is why I don't think the practices I mentioned regarding demon worship and witchcraft are a small thing. And they would clearly point to the spirituality that us in direct opposition to Christianity.
I mentioned earlier the work of Augustine, City of God, in which he condemned these practices extensively..meaning he spent a great part of the book referring to these practices (overt and those not so overt) in comparison to the correct way of worshipping God.
Augustine went to the 'core' of the matter..the fact that it's a spiritual battle first and foremost. Any religion practicing sorcery and witchcraft would clearly be in the camp of Babylon the great.
for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.
all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.
Very interesting points.
You asked whether Babylon is simply all forms of sorcery, witchcraft, and devil worship. These are certainly aspects of what Babylon promotes—but reducing her to these fringe phenomena misses the deeper point. Babylon is not merely about occult practices; she is about systemic opposition to the Lamb.
Wouldn't this systemic opposition to the Lamb be as a direct result of absolute intervention of the devil and demons tho?
For example, didn't Augustine in his City of God when referring to the same Rome attribute its actions to the manipulation of demons? In other words, the Romans practiced devil and demon worship when worshiping their pagan gods which led directly to the opposition to the Lamb in its various forms as you described.
for believers of god and christ, it seems that it should be obvious that babylon the great of revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc.
all things practiced in ancient babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in revelation).. or is this too simple of an explanation?.
For believers of God and Christ, it seems that it should be obvious that Babylon the great of Revelation should be all religions and spiritual practices associated with the one true enemy of Christ...the devil, satan, the snake etc.
Essentially any group or individual practicing and promoting witchcraft, sorcery, devil worshipping etc. All things practiced in ancient Babylon (the nation presumably used as the model for the one in Revelation).
Or is this too simple of an explanation?
rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?
as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.
that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.
Aqwsed-Jesus clearly claimed He had the authority to lay down His life and to take it up again. In John 10:17-18, He said: “I lay down my life that I may take it up again… I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again.” That is not a passive role—it’s an explicit declaration of divine power over life and death. Moreover, in John 2:19, Jesus says, “Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.” Verse 21 explains that “He was speaking of the temple of His body.” After the resurrection, John 2:22 says that His disciples remembered He had said this and believed.
Excellent verses, and excellent defense my friend.
I say the same to you Seabreeze. Excellent defense by means of the scriptures.
