Posts by Halcon

57

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Halcon

touchofgrey-instead of in a confusing manner that has had and still having people debating if he is a single god with a created son or three persons in one where they are all equal.Both versions can't be right but they can both be wrong.

We are not questioning the existence of God. As long as we do as John stated in his letter we are confident in our future.

But discussing the Trinity is an attempt to more fully understand our God. Can full understanding of Him be achieved? Very likely not. We are only human.

57

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Halcon

And that is why denying the full divinity of the Son—even under the guise of "order" or "will"—is not a harmless speculation, but a fatal error.

Yet from 1st John-

'22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father

further in John's letter-

14 And we have seen and testify that the Father has sent his Son to be the Savior of the world. 15 If anyone acknowledges that Jesus is the Son of God, God lives in them and they in God.'

Then, according to this scripture, to acknowledge that Jesus is the Son of God is sufficient.

Further attested by Jesus himself-

'15 “But what about you?” he asked. “Who do you say I am?”

16 Simon Peter answered, “You are the Messiah, the Son of the living God.”

17 Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven.'

No additional explanation of the extent of his divinity (as we may or may not understand it) is required.

57

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Halcon

1 Corinthians 11:3 does not imply inequality of nature, but order of relation. Christ is eternally from the Father (ex Patre), not in rank or value, but in origin. Just as in the Trinity, the Son proceeds from the Father without inequality. Subordination according to origin does not imply inequality of essence. The same passage says “man is the head of woman.” Does that imply women are ontologically inferior? No. It refers to a relational ordering, not a difference in dignity or essence.

Based on the above, it would appear that the point of contention isn't recognition of the order of relation. The son is clearly subordinate to the Father, as we all agree.

But in what way is salvation lost by understanding the subordination to the Father (by will of God) and not the (much more complex) 'non-created' and equality of essence of Father and son?

57

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Halcon

If God is the beginning of all then this God had nothing to do, feel or think. He didn't even take up 'space', as he hadn't made 'space' yet. Such a hypothetic case illustrates the illogic of such a being.

You are confusing your very limited human capacity with God's. Yet we are here, unless you believe we are just as illusory as the very first cause that got us here. An effect with no cause is illogical.

Further, why is solely intention before the manifestation or expression of anything illogical?

No wonder the Gnostics worshipped an 'unknown God'; a worthy God they imagined into existence.

The gnostics recognized and accepted their desire to worship, just not God as he is. That would have been beneath them.

57

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Halcon

One of the fundamental attributes of fathers is that they are older than their sons, and scripture talks about Wisdom being begotten long ago as the first of God’s acts of creation (Prov 8.22), that the Word was “in the beginning” (John 1.1), that Jesus lives “because of the Father” (John 5.67), is “the firstborn of all creation” (Col 1.15), and is “the beginning of the creation of God” (Rev 3.14.)

Another powerful verse is 1st Corinthians 11:3 - "But I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of woman is man, and the head of Christ is God".

57

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Halcon

but experts in that field can admit that they don't know yet. So no evidence of a first cause.

Suddenly, at the absolute beginning of it all...there's no evidence of a cause for everything that came after.

I figured this is where we would differ.

57

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Halcon

Duran-Explain how God came into existence. When you're done, then answer if that is what you claim about God existing, then maybe there is no God at all, but is the said explanation of how all things that do exist came to be?

If I say God has always existed with no beginning, I am to also say that all things have always existed with no beginning as well (if I understand your question correctly)?

57

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Halcon

Astrophysicist can provide a explanation for the inflation event.

As I said, you and I and all of these extremely knowledgeable scientists would agree on each effect's cause until we got to first cause.

57

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Halcon

Liam- Why would he put a tree in the middle of the Garden to Test their loyalty?

Because He wanted to.

57

The point of existence and how it refutes the Trinity

by slimboyfat in

rowan williams, the former archbishop of canterbury gave an interesting answer to the somewhat stark question, what’s the point of us existing?

as a christian, my starting point is that we exist because the most fundamental form of activity, energy, call it what you like, that is there, is love.

that is, it’s a willingness that the other should be.

Halcon

A inflation event some 13:9 billion years ago.

And what was responsible for that event?

Likely we would agree agree on every effect's cause, until we got to first cause.

Apply the same explanation to how God is said to exist.

Scriptures state God is the alpha and the omega.