TD

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Posts by TD

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  36

  Prophecy debunked in one sentence

  by logansrun in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  .

  the very act of looking into the future, changes -- indeed, negates -- that future.

  bradley

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  TD

  Two points before the big bang? They could not have existed, neither in space nor in time.

  This is all theoretical of course, but as you trace back in time towards the big bang, both space and time collapse into a singularity.
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  19

  Blood recycling machine bought by JW community

  by Wallflower in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  accidently came across this news article from the scunthorpe telegraph :.

  http://www.thisisscunthorpe.co.uk/displaynode.jsp?nodeid=56019&command=displaycontent&sourcenode=56018&contentpk=9562850.

  'recycling' could cut blood shortage .

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  TD

  Is this now WT policy? Are their hundreds of these machines in hospitals all over the world donated by concerned JWs trying to extend their life without offending their consciences. All at $100,000 at a time. If the Org did donate towards the cost of each one, they would be condoning this type of treatment, which goes against earlier statements.

  Just about every large metropolitan area in the U.S. has at least one medical institution running a bloodless program (sometimes more) and usually every one of these has at least one blood salvage machine. (sometimes more) I'm sure the situation in the UK is virtually identical.

  These machines cost between $40,000 and $60,000 each. Of course they have not all been donated by JWs and even among those that have, I don't know if the WTS was directly involved in financing the donations or not. If by some small chance, they were there are a couple of ways you could look at it.

  It is in the interest of the WTS to see to it that bloodless programs are as successful as possible. The fact that JW patients do quite well in scheduled surgery is played for all it is worth to promote the idea that the JW stance is not only scripturally correct, but medically viable as well. If refusing blood was in fact a death sentence most of the time (as opposed to only some of the time) the outcry not only from individuals, but from governments would become ear-splitting.

  On the other hand, you could also look at any WTS involvement that may exist in these donations as evidence that this organization does care for its members, at least at some level. It would mark a departure from a long tradtion of spurning charity.

  Also in fairness to the Witnesses, they have tried several times to explain these "loopholes" to their members. It never seems to work. The doctrine defies common sense, it is too arbitrary and way too complicated.
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  9

  VACCINATIONS AND THE WTBTS

  by Corvin in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  in the earlier days of the wtbts, they played hell with the medical profession and vehemently discouraged jw's or "bible students", if you will, from getting vaccinated.

  yes, they said it was a cruel hoax on people by satan.

  they said it was of black magic and blah blah blah .

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  TD

  Like everything else about JW's, their opposition to vaccination is convoluted......

  Vaccines can be divided into two basic categories

  Pre-exposure vaccines (Poliomyelitis MMR, Varicella, Annual flu shots etc.) are precautionary. In other words, they are administered just in case you might someday be exposed to the disease in question. These types of vaccines are not derived directly from animal blood. The viral agent that forms the basis for the vaccine is usually cultured in egg. The most effective pre-exposure vaccines contain a live attenuated (weak) strain of the virus. When an attenuated strain is not available, the virus is chemically inactivated (killed) usually so that its RNA is completely destroyed and only the protein shell remains.

  Although the body?s response to a live virus will usually be stronger, either way, it will react basically the same as if it were attacked by the real thing. Over the next few weeks it will produce antibodies against the virus, giving you long-term active immunity.

  There are several ways pre-exposure vaccines have been administered. The smallpox vaccine was applied to the skin, usually high on the upper arm. The Sabin poliomyelitis vaccine (OPV) is given orally. Others are simply injected.

  Jehovah?s Witnesses retracted their earlier opposition to vaccines in general in 1952, although they continued to describe them in negative terms for years. (The Watchtower December 15, 1952 p. 764)

  However Jehovah's Witnesses continued to condemn a second type of vaccine even after 1952:

  Post-exposure vaccines are reactionary. They are administered after you have already been exposed to the disease. Suppose you step on rusty nail and its been more than five years since your last tetanus booster. Suppose you are bitten by a rabid animal. You need immediate passive immunity.

  Post-eposure vaccines contain immune-globulin, a plasma protein derived from blood. Although some common immune-globulins are produced recombinately today, formerly, the only source was some other creature that had already been exposed. It was common to use horses and other large animals, and for exotic diseases and antivenins against unusual snake and spider bites, it still is.

  The immunity provided by post-exposure vaccines is very temporary

  Jehovah's Witnesses ruled that post-exposure vaccines like the tetanus booster and the diphtheria anti-toxin were a matter of conscience in 1958. (The Watchtower, September 15, 1958 p. 575)

  When transfusion became a disfellowshipping offense in 1961, they waffled back for the next few years (1961-1963) but finally declared post-exposure vaccines to be a matter of conscience again in 1964. (The Watchtower November 15, 1964 pp. 680-683)
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  9

  VACCINATIONS AND THE WTBTS

  by Corvin in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  in the earlier days of the wtbts, they played hell with the medical profession and vehemently discouraged jw's or "bible students", if you will, from getting vaccinated.

  yes, they said it was a cruel hoax on people by satan.

  they said it was of black magic and blah blah blah .

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  TD

  I can't help with statistics, but thought some might enjoy these from the 1932 and 1939 Golden Age
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  44

  Blood type..............who knows their's and who's an A- ?

  by Sunnygal41 in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  hi fellow posters!

  in connection with a recent post by blondie, i wondered what everyone's blood type was on the forum.

  a couple of years ago, i wondered what mine was and contacted my hospital that has my records.

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  TD

  A+
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  19

  Blood recycling machine bought by JW community

  by Wallflower in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  accidently came across this news article from the scunthorpe telegraph :.

  http://www.thisisscunthorpe.co.uk/displaynode.jsp?nodeid=56019&command=displaycontent&sourcenode=56018&contentpk=9562850.

  'recycling' could cut blood shortage .

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  TD

  The policy is indeed convoluted. Of the three main froms of autologous transfusion, two are allowed and one is not.

  Isovolemic hemodilution is allowed. (Although it was forbidden for about a decade.) In this process, a couple of units of blood are withdrawn into storage bags while a plasma expander is administered. Any subsequent surgical blood loss is thus diluted by the plasma expander. At the conclusion of the surgery, the bags can be elevated and the patient's own blood reinfused.

  The use of a cell salvage apparatus is also allowed.

  As Willyloman points out, the only form of autologous transfusion that is forbidden is predonation.

  JW's believe that "blood must not be stored" and that "blood removed from the body must be poured out." (They base these two ideas entirely on the Torah even though it says nothing of the sort.)

  It's hard to imagine any honest person actually witnessing hemodilution and denying that the blood has been stored or witnessing a cell saver in action and denying that the blood has left the body.
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  19

  Blood recycling machine bought by JW community

  by Wallflower in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  accidently came across this news article from the scunthorpe telegraph :.

  http://www.thisisscunthorpe.co.uk/displaynode.jsp?nodeid=56019&command=displaycontent&sourcenode=56018&contentpk=9562850.

  'recycling' could cut blood shortage .

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  TD

  A cell salvage machine or "cell saver" suctions off blood seeping into the surgical field and then centrifuges out the red cells and cleans them up by removing the heparin and free hemoglobin. The red cells are then resuspended in saline and transfused back into the patient.

  Despite the fact that this is technically an autologous transfusion, the written policy is that Jehovah's Witnesses may avail themselves of this procedure as their "conscience" allows. Slightly more behind the scenes, HLC members aggressively recommend this procedure as part of operative strategy to avoid allogenic blood. JW's in fact donate these machines to hospitals and medical institutions on a regular basis.
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  3

  No Blood Donation if You have had a Transfusion (in UK)

  by BluesBrother in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  copied this from the bbc.news today .. i can just hear the dubs of my acquaintance cheering themselves an "i told you so" victory .

  but one might point out that the acceptance of blood componants carries just the same "risk" , if there is a risk at all .

  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3515358.stm..................................................................................................................................................................................................... .

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  TD

  I'm surprised it has taken this long

  I became a regular donor here in the Phoenix area about 6 years ago. Two among the many questions you are asked to determine your eligibility are, "Have you lived in Great Britian in the last 5 years" and, "Have you had a blood transfusion in the last 10 years."
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  42

  Another JW Questions 1914 At The Meeting!!!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my mother told me that a regular pioneer in his 60's from a nearby hall questioned how we could be sure 1914 was the date christ was enthroned as king of the kingdom.

  he questioned the brother conducting the meeting for field service.

  it didn't go well......he left that hall and is reported missing in action!

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  TD

  ----Thanks Heathen. I must be confusing the "enthronement" with the "first ressurection" and "coming to the spiritual temple."
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  42

  Another JW Questions 1914 At The Meeting!!!

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my mother told me that a regular pioneer in his 60's from a nearby hall questioned how we could be sure 1914 was the date christ was enthroned as king of the kingdom.

  he questioned the brother conducting the meeting for field service.

  it didn't go well......he left that hall and is reported missing in action!

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  TD

  Sounds like the blind leading the blind in JW-land. They actually believe that there was a 3 1/2 year "interregnum" corresponding to the length of Christ's eartly ministry between his "arrival" in the latter part of 1914 and his enthronement as king in the early part of 1918.