Posts by TD

118

C.T. Russell: a confirmed Pittsburgh Free Mason

by kid-A in

jw
friends

there is overwhelming evidence that the spiritual founder of the wts, c.t.

russell, was a prominent free mason in the pittsburgh community.

he went so far as to declare: "i am a free mason" in several of his lectures.

TD

Hi Rebel,

The JW's didn't build it, so the most we could take them to task for is not removing the decoration after they acquired the building. At any rate, this has little to do with Russell.
We can't? I think we can. If they bought an old Catholic church, wouldn't they remove the crucifix before they held meetings inside? Look, I could not care less if there is a symbol on the building, but they do. It is their hypocrisy by not following their own beliefs that bothers me.

There is no "can't" in what I said. Taking the JW's to task for not removing the decoration is the most we can do since they didn't construct the building.

However even that might not be entirely fair because New York is famous for forbidding the altering of building exteriors through "historic" zoning regulations as you probably well know.

13

LMAO--wikiepedia entry for Joseph Rutherford

by IronGland in

jw
friends

second to last paragraph quoted:.

in san diego, california in the 1920's, the organization built a house in california called beth sarim.

the hebrew words beth sarim mean 'house of the princes'.

C.T. Russell: a confirmed Pittsburgh Free Mason

by kid-A in

jw
friends

there is overwhelming evidence that the spiritual founder of the wts, c.t.

russell, was a prominent free mason in the pittsburgh community.

he went so far as to declare: "i am a free mason" in several of his lectures.

TD

Hi Rebel,

Site claims there is a symbol of the god Ra on the outside of the assembly hall. Not having been there, I cannot verify this is true.

The assembly hall is in Queens. The JW's didn't build it, so the most we could take them to task for is not removing the decoration after they acquired the building. At any rate, this has little to do with Russell.

Below is Russell's statement in context. I think it is pretty clear that he was simply cuddling up to the Masons without claiming membership.

4

JW's and the Death Penalty

by minty in

jw
friends

do jehovahs witnesses agree with the death penalty.

in leviticus it says: "'and in case a man strikes any soul of mankind fatally, he should be put to death without fail.

TD

JW's are not philosophically opposed to the death penalty. They believe it was enjoined upon mankind as part of the Noachian covenant (Genesis 9:6) and therefore predates the Law.

For example:

*** w97 6/15 p. 30 Questions From Readers ***To put it pointedly, in his written Word, God does not indicate that capital punishment is wrong.
Early in human history, Jehovah shared his thoughts on the matter, as we read in Genesis chapter 9. This involved Noah and his family, who became ancestors of the entire human family. After they came out of the ark, God said that they could eat animals—that is, animals could be killed, drained of their blood, and eaten. Then, at Genesis 9:5, 6, God said: "Besides that, your blood of your souls shall I ask back. From the hand of every living creature shall I ask it back; and from the hand of man, from the hand of each one who is his brother, shall I ask back the soul of man. Anyone shedding man’s blood, by man will his own blood be shed, for in God’s image he made man." So Jehovah authorized capital punishment in the case of murderers.

However since capital punishment is such a highly charged political topic, JW's feel it is not something that Christians formally support or oppose. JW's therefore steer well clear of this debate.

118

C.T. Russell: a confirmed Pittsburgh Free Mason

by kid-A in

jw
friends

there is overwhelming evidence that the spiritual founder of the wts, c.t.

russell, was a prominent free mason in the pittsburgh community.

he went so far as to declare: "i am a free mason" in several of his lectures.

TD

Rutherford coined the term "Kingdom Hall" on a visit to Hawaii in April, 1935, if memory serves.

You're memory is dead on, Nathan. Russell never used the term.

8

The Demise Of 1874

by TD in

russell held that christ's return was realized in 1874. we also know that this date was moved forward by 40 years, to 1914 during the rutherford presidency.

the dishonesty of the society in printing things that either openly state, or strongly imply that a 1914 parousia is what the bible students taught from the very beginning has been the subject of discussion lately.

i think what is far less clear is when and how this change from 1874 to 1914 actually happened.

TD

We all know that C.T. Russell held that Christ's return was realized in 1874. We also know that this date was moved forward by 40 years, to 1914 during the Rutherford Presidency.

The dishonesty of the Society in printing things that either openly state, or strongly imply that a 1914 Parousia is what the Bible Students taught from the very beginning has been the subject of discussion lately.

I think what is far less clear is when and how this change from 1874 to 1914 actually happened. With that in mind, I thought it would be fun to document the demise of the 1874 date with actual scans from the literature.

During the Russell era, one of the most emphatic statements concerning 1874 appeared in the May, 1881 issue of Zion's Watch Tower on page 5:

The Harp Of God, a Rutherford era book intended for Bible study with the masses was also quite clear about the significance of 1874:

Rutherford era Watch Towers frequently taught the 1874 date in what was almost a bombastic tone:

The last clear, unambiguous reference to 1874 ever to appear in the literature can be found in the 1929 book, Prophecy

Now begins the demise of the 1874 date. In contrast to the clarity of the previous quotes, notice the vagueness of the October 15, 1930 issue of The Watch Tower on page 308:

Even more indeterminate is the next quote, which appeared in the November 1, 1932 issue on page 325:

The first distinct reference to 1914 as the date for Christ's Second Coming did not appear in The Watchtower until the December 1, 1933 issue (p. 362)

It was at this point that the 1874 date was discarded entirely.

13

Russell got Pyramid measurements from a drawing??!!

by VM44 in

i seem to recall reading something that ct russell obtained his pyramid measurements from a drawing of a pyramid using calipers and rulers!!!!!.

now that really wouldn't give the accuracy in values required for prophetic calculations.

by taking measurements from a diagram, one could come up with any numbers one wanted in order to "massage" a calculation to give predetermined end year for a prophecy.. in one of russell's books, the pyramid dimensional measurements were "stretched" (or "shrunked" perhaps) from one edition to another in order to make the calculations come out the desired way.

TD

This was from 1912. I thought you guys might get a kick out of this:

6

WatchTower is God's means of Communication: 1939 Yearbook quote

by confusedjw in

quote

: "it should be expected that the lord would have a means of communication to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called the watchtower is used for that purpose.

" (1939 yearbook of jehovah's witnesses, p.

TD

Voila....

26

Describe your first thoughts upon hearing the 1914 generation 'new light'

by kid-A in

jw
friends

.

we all remember where we were and what we were thinking during highly significant events....(e.g.

9-11, jfk, etc)..... if you can recall, what were the first thoughts racing through your mind as you sat at the 1995 d.c. at the infamous 1914 generation change announcement, was it "the final nail in the coffin of your wts beliefs or did you engage in mental gymnastics to try to assimilate the "fresh meat in due season" lol....... i was in such shock at this announcement, i think my mind just blanked out for 10 minutes followed by: "ok, this really is it for me......they have duped us all along", i then immediately started thinking of my 90 year old jw grandmother sitting in the stadium, and what must have been going through her mind......

TD

Carla

Trying to understand the 'third class' you mentioned. Wouldn't that put any jw's who died now in the same boat as those who died previous to 1995? Don't they get to 'come back' at the big A and help out in restoring earth and accepting all the 'new light'? a bit confused and can't afford to not have this right, thanks much, carla

JW's teach that there was one hope, the heavenly calling, from Pentecost clear up until 1935 AD.

In 1935, a second group manifest itself --The "great multitude" These, as a group, would survive Armageddon and never have to die. This was the generation that would see the end.

JW's allow for exceptions due to untimely death, etc. but as a rule, there are only two hopes and two classes of Christians in JW theology.

The generation change (and the sheer passage of time) creates a third group of Christians. These have the "Earthly hope" but they don't survive Armageddon because they don't live to see it. They're basically in the same boat as those that lived before Christ.

As you point out, these have "the hope of resurrection" according to JW's, but so does everybody. The JW's believe that everyone, JW and non JW alike who dies prior to Armageddon will be resurrected (With rare exceptions)

26

Describe your first thoughts upon hearing the 1914 generation 'new light'

by kid-A in

jw
friends

.

we all remember where we were and what we were thinking during highly significant events....(e.g.

9-11, jfk, etc)..... if you can recall, what were the first thoughts racing through your mind as you sat at the 1995 d.c. at the infamous 1914 generation change announcement, was it "the final nail in the coffin of your wts beliefs or did you engage in mental gymnastics to try to assimilate the "fresh meat in due season" lol....... i was in such shock at this announcement, i think my mind just blanked out for 10 minutes followed by: "ok, this really is it for me......they have duped us all along", i then immediately started thinking of my 90 year old jw grandmother sitting in the stadium, and what must have been going through her mind......

TD

I thought, "How can the JW religion survive this?"

The change creates a third class of JW's that don't survive Armageddon and don't go to heaven. Within the JW salvific schema they're no different and no better off than non-JW's.