TD

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Posts by TD

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  51

  Help please

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .

  during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .

  both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .

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  TD

  I guess I'm not quite understanding that assertion that, "all means all."
  

  Webster's Encyclopedic Unabridged gives 13 basic definitions for the English word, "all" plus another 20 prepositional/adverbial constructs, for a total of 33 different definitions.

  Johnston divides the use of the Greek word, πᾶς in the NT into two broad categories, which he calls the, "summative" and the, "distributive." The former would be the entire item or set of items taken as a whole, while the latter would be a set of items taken as individuals. He then develops the thesis that usage is based on a combination of syntactical-semantic and exegetical-contextual elements, which strikes me as a teeny, tiny bit more complicated than a singular definition.

  Don't misunderstand. There's nothing wrong with pointing out the NWT does not, in your opinion, accurately convey the writer's overall message. There's nothing wrong in believing that other translations do a much better job in this regard. Most xjw's do..
  

  What's wrong is the idea that the JW's have "changed the verses to alter the meaning." This assumes there is only one possible way the text can be understood, which is simply not true.
  
• 
  51

  Help please

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .

  during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .

  both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .

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  2. 
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  TD

  JoenB75

  
  

  Everything is within context of the spoken subject.

  
  

  Yes. Thank you.

  
  

  The NIV is actually much farther from the word for word end of the spectrum than the JW's NWT, and as such, illustrates your point very well

  The Greek text at John 8:2, for example, does not say the people "gathered around" Jesus; it simply says they came to him. (..ἤρχετο πρὸς αὐτόν) This intimation of a smaller, rather cozy circle of people is an embellishment of the translator.
• 
  51

  Help please

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .

  during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .

  both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .

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  2. 
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• 

  TD

  jhine,
  

  Luke 3:15 cannot possibly be totally inclusive of all people. Judea was only one small corner of the world even at the time and there were other civilizations that were simply too far away to know or care.

  John 8:2 presents an identical problem. The temple complex could not have accommodated everyone in Jerusalem.
  

  Similarly, if you accept the gospel accounts, it is clear that there were some who did not accept Jesus' message and others who actively opposed it. Luke's assertion that "all praised him" (δοξαζόμενος ὑπὸ πάντων) cannot possibly be totally inclusive. (Luke 4:15)

  I only gave a few examples of this usage, but there are plenty of others.

  Luke 11:41 is a different sort of qualification. Jesus did not wash his hands before dining like a good Pharisee should and responds to the surprise this causes by pointing out the superiority of charity over ritual cleanliness. Jesus' assertion that, "all [things] are clean to you" (πάντα καθαρὰ ὑμῖν ἐστιν) needs to be understood in that context; otherwise it makes no sense.

  
  
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  6

  English as a first language

  by road to nowhere in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  pronunciation is so hard.

  the butchered word this time is scourge pronounced as skorj.

  4 different people, maybe because the reader did it first.. these same ones also pronounce the w in sword.. a pet peeve of mine is blatantly not learning how to speak and pronounce the native tongue.

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  TD

  More people speaking a language = More regional accents and pronunciations
• 
  51

  Help please

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .

  during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .

  both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  jhine,

  Would you believe that there are entire books about the use of this one word in the NT?
  

  Although the basic meaning of the word, πᾶς is, "all," there are plenty of instances where the usage is qualified in one way or another.

  Here's four quick examples:
  

  And as the people were in expectation, and all men reasoned in their hearts concerning John, whether haply he were the Christ (Luke 3:15)
  

  And he taught in their synagogues, being glorified of all. (Luke 4:15)

  But give for alms those things which are within; and behold, all things are clean unto you. (Luke 11:41)
  

  And early in the morning he came again into the temple, and all the people came unto him; and he sat down, and taught them. (John 8:2)

  In none of these instances does the word, "all" in a totally inclusive sense really work. And as the JWs are fond of pointing out, even mainstream translators have inserted the word, "other" at Luke 11:42 and 21:29.

  With deep respect, if we want to criticize the JWs for their doctrinal bias (Which I agree, is very noticeable) than we have to set our own aside.

  Is the insistence that the text has one very clear meaning really a matter of grammar or is it a matter of theology?

  
  
• 
  51

  Help please

  by jhine in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hi , would someone help me please with some info about the nwt .

  during my study time l have been reading john 1:1-14 and colossians 1:15-17 .

  both these passages indicate that jesus was not created as the wt asserts .

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  TD

  Jan,

  If I'm understanding you correctly, I think your question presupposes that there is only one possible way a sentence can be understood.

  Language is not that precise. It's actually very, slippery.

  In another thread, for example, you pointed out that the word, "Other" is not in the Greek text at Colossians 1:15-20, which is true enough, but by the same token, neither is the word, "Things."

  All translators are inserting a word here.

  "Things" and "All things" and "Other things" are all possible ways the word, πάντα could be understood.

  I don't think there is any question that the NWT is favorable to the JW's by design. But in most instances, it is still well within the boundaries of definitions and grammar.
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  107

  Do You Trump Should Have Exterminated That Poor Iranian Fellow?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  good move or bad?

  ?.

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  TD

  He got what he deserved...
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  40

  Double Standards of the Watchtower

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  are you aware of any double standards promoted by the organization of jehovah's witnesses?

  here a a few i am aware of:.

  1. the wts equated joining the ymca with apostasy but felt free to join the un for 10 years (1991-2001).

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  TD

  Vanderhoven,

  The JWs have at times, condemned people who stood around and did nothing while somebody was assaulted. (e.g. A young woman is stabbed to death in broad daylight.)

  However they simultaneously preach what is arguably a form of pacifism, which would prevent anybody from doing anything meaningful.
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  58

  What Will Happen To President Trump In Your Opinion?

  by minimus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  he has been “impeached “.

  will he be convicted in the senate?

  is he so “damaged goods” that he is ineffectual?

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  TD

  Nothing.

  For all practical purposes, it takes a majority of the opposition party in both chambers of Congress to remove a President.

  And unless the Democrats can produce a viable candidate in the tiny handful of states that actually count, he will very likely win in 2020.
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  21

  Self Driving Vehicles

  by TD in

  1. social
  2. current

  i was so stoked about the whole idea a few years ago, but am having serious misgivings at this point.. what are your experiences / impressions / opinions?.

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  TD

  Here's an example of what I mean by the finer points of traffic law.

  (Disclaimer: This is specific to my state. Your laws may be different.)

  Here where I live, the Frontage / Access / Service road is not just another surface street.

  As the names imply, the purpose of this road is to service the freeway.

  Traffic exiting the freeway onto the service road has the right of way, even in a lane change.

  Traffic on the service road is alerted to this fact by both a yield sign and a band of isosceles triangles, letting you know you're entering into an area of cross-traffic:

  
  

  This seems to be too complicated a concept for self driving vehicles, perhaps because it is an inversion of the normal rule.

  To be fair though, a lot of human drivers don't understand this either and when it becomes a problem, (i.e. Enough accidents have occurred) the yield sign will be replaced with a full stop: