Posts by TD

84

Do you have any evidence that the GB had bad intent?

by AlainAlam in

do you have any evidence that the gb had bad intent?

as opposed to blind faith/cognitive dissonance and honest mistakes.. i'm inclined to think they have the best of intentions and are just wrong (primarily because the bible is wrong), but i'm willing to consider the evidence otherwise..

TD

AA

But what makes you think they know they're wrong? (In regard to transfusion medicine)

JW opposition to transfusion medicine was born out of a misconception of what blood did in the body.

I've briefly documented the original objection here:

https://www.jehovahs-witness.com/topic/188572/jw-science-quote-2-5

Instead of rescinding the doctrine when the original premise collapsed, JW leaders and policy makers have reinvented it several times over the years, as the cost in terms of loss of face and credibility in admitting they were wrong on something of this magnitude would be enormous.

The arguments which have replaced the original premise have all been equally faulty and they know it.

For example, regardless of what anybody thinks of the NWT (It's not very popular here) an organization capable of any sort of translation would have known that invoking the partial predicate "Abstain...from blood" as in independent construction is ungrammatical. (I can elaborate)

Arguments about the sacredness of blood, misuse of blood, etc. cannot be reconciled with official policy, which currently allows a number of preparations and procedures involving blood. There's actually no single part of a transfusion procedure which is not allowed in other contexts.

49

I'm interested in discussing basic JW doctrines that you believe are unscriptural

by AlainAlam in

background info: although i'm an apostate, i don't hate jehovah's witnesses, or the organization itself.

actually i find that many derogatory comments here are extremely biased.

i think most of them are amazing people, and i wish more non-witnesses were like them.

TD

AA

TD We could quote another "book" in the Bible, like the book of life in Philippians 4:3 or the book of the living which is equated with having a righteous standard in Ps 69.28.

I believe JW's teach that those whose lives were vile enough (Adolf Hitler zum Beispiel...) will not be resurrected during the millennium and Psalm 69:28 is invariably invoked in support of that idea. Apparently the thought is that God can blot out the record of a wicked soul or he can preserve the record of a righteous soul for future resurrection.

Phillippians 4:3 is outside the scope of my observation, which was specific to JW views of life on earth.

Since JW's believe the Bible is a single contiguous work with a central theme, yada, yada, yada, everything must integrate with the parenthetical statement at Revelation 20:5, which says that, "The rest of the dead do not come to life until the thousand years were ended."

In JW theology, the "rest of the dead" are those who were not included in the First Resurrection and are therefore resurrected to life on earth. Consequently the Book of LIfe at Revelation 20:12, in the words of JW's themselves is, "...Jehovah’s list that he will make up of those human creatures who meet his requirements during the millennium in order to be approved for life everlasting on earth."

This phenomenon, (JW's being sloppy with their own teachings for the sake of convenience) is not isolated. It's fairly easy to come up with examples.

49

I'm interested in discussing basic JW doctrines that you believe are unscriptural

by AlainAlam in

background info: although i'm an apostate, i don't hate jehovah's witnesses, or the organization itself.

actually i find that many derogatory comments here are extremely biased.

i think most of them are amazing people, and i wish more non-witnesses were like them.

TD

My understand (Which could be wrong) is that Rev 3:5 is specific to the anointed and their heavenly calling while Rev 20:12 is specific to the resurrection to judgement during the millennium.

Both were about resurrection and neither is/was about Armageddon.

49

I'm interested in discussing basic JW doctrines that you believe are unscriptural

by AlainAlam in

background info: although i'm an apostate, i don't hate jehovah's witnesses, or the organization itself.

actually i find that many derogatory comments here are extremely biased.

i think most of them are amazing people, and i wish more non-witnesses were like them.

TD

ow

AA

TD but the book of life is opened at the end of the 1000-year reign. Isn't it explicit in Rev 20?

Yes. Exactly.

Or am I missing something?

JW's sometimes forget this and apply it to survival of Armageddon.

--And not just the rank and file either. I once heard what they call a Circuit Overseer go on for thirty minutes about getting your name in the Book of Life now, so you can survive Armageddon.

49

I'm interested in discussing basic JW doctrines that you believe are unscriptural

by AlainAlam in

background info: although i'm an apostate, i don't hate jehovah's witnesses, or the organization itself.

actually i find that many derogatory comments here are extremely biased.

i think most of them are amazing people, and i wish more non-witnesses were like them.

TD

On the question of scriptural vs. unscriptural teachings, one way to approach it is from the standpoint of things the JW's themselves don't believe to be scriptural.

For example, unless I am very much mistaken, the JW's believe the "Book of Life" of Revelation 20 is not opened until the end of the millennium and this view follows directly from what they consider the "Resurrection of judgement" to be. (i.e. The vast majority of mankind are resurrected during the millennium and judged based on their conduct thereafter.)

However it is not at all uncommon for JW's to insinuate, imply, or even openly state both in speech and in print that having ones name in the "Book of Life" is about survival of Armageddon and that your name is put into this book via organizational affiliation with the JW's.

So an unscriptural teaching (By their own standards) is used for the sake of convenience as a sort of cattle prod vis-à-vis people they consider to be "inactive" or not otherwise doing enough.

656

Covid-19 (Coronavirus) - Status Update Thread

by Simon in

jw
friends

this topic is to focus on status updates & advice (no opinion or politics please).. status.

latest status is that it's serious, probably isn't going to be contained and most large companies are making contingency plans, cancelling large events etc... which i don't think would happen if it was just people being alarmist.

the incubation period means it may have already spread further and infected many more people than are currently known, so expect jumps in the numbers over the coming days and weeks.. tracking.

TD

The CDC estimates influenza deaths in the U.S. this season (October 2019 - March 2020) at 24,000 to 62,000.

I think I know where you're going with this on a Covid-19 thread, but I hope I'm wrong.

49

I'm interested in discussing basic JW doctrines that you believe are unscriptural

by AlainAlam in

background info: although i'm an apostate, i don't hate jehovah's witnesses, or the organization itself.

actually i find that many derogatory comments here are extremely biased.

i think most of them are amazing people, and i wish more non-witnesses were like them.

TD

You question seems to have a basic tenet of the JW's built into it as an a priori assumption

JW's and kindred groups believe the sixty-six book compilation is a single, contiguous work with a central theme and internal continuity from cover to cover.

(As opposed to a loosely organized anthology reflecting a number of theological views which did not truly reach its final form until the Middle Ages.)

I'm really not sure how some of the doctrines you mention above could be judged as scriptural or unscriptural in the absence of this view.

I'm willing to don that cap sometimes for the sake of discussion with a believing JW, but I'm a little puzzled here, since you're not.

18

YouTube BANNED this video yesterday!

by The Fall Guy in

it lasts for 45 minutes, but the first 11 minutes are more than enough to see that something is not quite right regarding the media's information about covid 19. the video has english subtitles.

.

https://www.davidicke.com/article/566782/billy-six-deckt-corona-schauspiel-auf.

TD

Don't shoot the messenger!

Icke is not simply a "messenger."

He starts with his conclusion and backs into it

That is a style of argumentation (And logical fallacy) that everyone familiar with the JW's should be intimately acquainted with

21

Covid 19 - expert says it's hype!

by The Fall Guy in

lol!

having commented earlier on experts' differing views, here's a prominent german physician/politician - wolfgang wodarg - who made controvorsial statements that the coronavirus "pandemic" is not out of the ordinary and that italy's mortality rate (8,215 deaths from coronavirus so far) is no greater than it would normally be from the 'flu virus.

in 2017/18 approx 18,000 italians died due to the flu.. the wikipedia section - controversial theses in the 2020 covid 19 crisis - is worth examining.

TD

So a scientist advances a theory. It's torn to shreds by his peers, not just of its inaccuracy, but for its faulty methodology.

The data since early 2020 has not followed the model suggested by the theory, providing further disconfirmation,

Die Glaubwürdigkeit von Herrn Wodarg ist jetzt ernsthaft geschädigt...

Was your intention to highlight the difference between how science works and how religion works?

26

Jehovah's Witnesses Mistaken Ideas About What The Bible Teaches

by Vanderhoven7 in

let's add to the following list.

jws are mistaken when they believe the bible teaches:.

1. that their leaders somehow represent the faithful and wise servant.

TD

--But that matter [circumcision] came up because of the false brothers brought in quietly, who slipped in to spy on the freedom we enjoy in union with Christ Jesus, so that they might completely enslave us

Paul and James lob insults at each other all through the NT.