TD

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Posts by TD

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  53

  Those members who passed away

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  who of those passed away jwd/jwn members, do we think of??.

  oompah and the lady from australia, are there more??.

  g..

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  TD

  The lady from Australia was Jan Groenveld, I believe (?)
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  48

  JWs are bigger and more successful than the Mormon church

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just saw the following you tube video.

  it’s 3 hours long, but thoroughly interesting.

  if you want to save yourself 3 hours, basically the active mormon church is about 3 million.

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  TD

  Like slim I have been to various churches since I have left the JWs. The thing that intrigues me isn’t so much their beliefs, but the culture that exists with in these religions.

  Okay Joe, maybe we're just looking at different parts of the same elephant.

  The two groups definitely share some similarities, but they are night and day in other areas which stand out in bass relief as a child, an adolescent and a young adult
  

  The JW belief that this world is doomed; that it's a lost cause; and that everything from community service to simple charity is the equivalent of patching the roof of a condemned house (Their analogy, not mine...) makes them chronic underachievers who do the bare minimum throughout life.

  The Mormon belief that intelligent beings progress almost infinitely, eventually attaining the status of a god and that "hell" is simply a retardation of this process fosters an attitude of Wer sich nicht weiterentwickelt, entwickelt sich zurück if you will.

  I could flesh this out to the size novel. I could dredge up the old brochure, School and Jehovah's Witnesses or quote what the JW's have to say about overtime, career advancement, and college. I could point out that it has been the Mormons who were the community and civic leaders in the Southwestern U.S. while the JW's comforted themselves by quoting 1 Corinthians 1:27, but anyone who grew up as a JW knows exactly what I'm talking about.

  Both groups are about equally odd in my opinion, but I found (through observation and direct experience) the JW worldview to be far more destructive to young people. When we talk about the "success" of a religion (As opposed to a weed or a virus) I believe this is an important consideration.
  

  
  
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  48

  JWs are bigger and more successful than the Mormon church

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just saw the following you tube video.

  it’s 3 hours long, but thoroughly interesting.

  if you want to save yourself 3 hours, basically the active mormon church is about 3 million.

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  TD

  Slim,

  TD I’m not so sure why you object to numbers of adherents/congregations as measures of success.

  I'm not objecting to it as a measure of success, I'm objecting to as the measure of success. (i.e. Larger = More successful)
  

  Like you said above, we can measure success in various ways.

  As someone who is intimately familiar with both groups, I object to the footrace and corporate analogies. You can't "race" someone who's not running the same course as you.
  
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  48

  JWs are bigger and more successful than the Mormon church

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just saw the following you tube video.

  it’s 3 hours long, but thoroughly interesting.

  if you want to save yourself 3 hours, basically the active mormon church is about 3 million.

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  TD

  Joe,

  Im searching for an explanation as to why watchtower has been so successful, as apposed to their Mormon counterparts

  Are you?
  

  You've been posting this stuff for several years now. That's plenty of time to become familiar enough with the two groups to avoid apple and orange comparisons, like equating the LDS General Conference to the JW Memorial, or for that matter, equating numerical growth with "success" which has been your basic premise from day one.
  

  Like I've tried to point out, the free exercise of their faith, including their polygamous marriage customs was more important to the LDS Church than numerical growth. They separated themselves from society completely and their reintegration was slow, painful and even violent at times. (The Mountain Meadows Massacre happened shortly after C.T. Russell, was born, I believe.) The Mormons, as group, continued to be clannish and reclusive, especially in small towns, well into the 20th century.

  You can't claim to be looking for an explanation for how the two groups got to where they are today while simultaneously glossing over all that history. --Not unless you're just here to stump for the JW's...
  

  
  
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  48

  JWs are bigger and more successful than the Mormon church

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just saw the following you tube video.

  it’s 3 hours long, but thoroughly interesting.

  if you want to save yourself 3 hours, basically the active mormon church is about 3 million.

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  TD

  Joseph Smiths first vision was in 1820.
  

  Smith was only 14 in early 1820 and with the exception of a few close friends mostly kept that event to himself

  Maybe a better comparison, would be the publishing of the BOM in 1830, because this was the first true glimpse that outsiders got into Smith's world

  But even that quickly devolves into apples and oranges. Russell's pseudo Adventist message of restitution was more mainstream by an order of magnitude than Smith's claim to having been personally visited by angelic beings including Peter, James and John; having actually spoken to them; having the Aaronic Priesthood conferred upon himself and Cowdery, having translated a set of golden plates that only about ten other people ever allegedly saw, etc., etc. etc.
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  177

  Charles T Russell -a freemason and the connection to the illuminati...

  by dolphman in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  ok, i'm not one for conspiracy theories but lately i've uncovered some interesting facts that i think warrant some attention.. first of all, russell was a freemason.

  all the early watchtower and books he authored have freemason symbology and art throughout them.

  not a big deal i thought, until i read more about freemasons and the so-called "illuminati", a group of 13 families that supposedly control the world.. supposedly these 13 families, such as the duponts, mcdonalds, kennedys, .

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  TD

  ...
  
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  48

  JWs are bigger and more successful than the Mormon church

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just saw the following you tube video.

  it’s 3 hours long, but thoroughly interesting.

  if you want to save yourself 3 hours, basically the active mormon church is about 3 million.

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  TD

  Well yes, I don't disagree with that at all, but to wax about the fifty-year head start of the LDS church, implies that the two groups were on the same racetrack, so to speak. But that's not the case. The two groups might as well not have been on the same planet for how different they were.

  The Utah area prior to the Civil War was not a place you went to if you wanted contact with the outside world. Quite the opposite, this was a place you went to sever all contact with the outside world. Utah was not even a territory back then. If anyone reading this thread is not familiar with the Utah War, then Google it. If that doesn't make the point then I'm not sure what will.
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  48

  JWs are bigger and more successful than the Mormon church

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just saw the following you tube video.

  it’s 3 hours long, but thoroughly interesting.

  if you want to save yourself 3 hours, basically the active mormon church is about 3 million.

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  TD

  The point that really comes home to me with the JW / LDS comparison, is that having more money doesn’t necessarily mean more members....

  ..... their performance would probably make Microsoft or apple computer green with envy.

  I was going to take another stab at untangling the assumption of ceteris paribus by explaining a few of the philosophical and historical differences between the two faiths, but then got to the part about Apple and Microsoft and threw up my hands.

  Carry on...
  
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  48

  JWs are bigger and more successful than the Mormon church

  by joe134cd in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  just saw the following you tube video.

  it’s 3 hours long, but thoroughly interesting.

  if you want to save yourself 3 hours, basically the active mormon church is about 3 million.

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• 

  TD

  If raw membership is your only yardstick, I guess...

  In almost every other meaningful metric that I can think of, (Median income, average level of education, community/volunteer service, charitable activities, etc., etc.) there isn't much of a comparison. At least not here in the the American SW.
  
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  6

  Greetings and Request for Help

  by AGuest-Again in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  it's been awhile since i've been on this board and i am not here to stay (so stay calm, please, simon).

  a good, dear friend of mine... and possible yours... outlaw needs some help and i've come back solely for the purpose of asking for that.

  a couple of days ago, outlaw lost everything... and i do mean everything... to one of the wildfires burning in british columbia:.

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  TD

  Thanks for the heads up, Shelby. I always liked Outlaw. He was a hoot.