TD

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Posts by TD

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  9

  Al Kidd on Blood

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  another apologist for the watchtower society doctrinal position on blood has written on the subject.

  his name is al kidd.

  his written comments can be found at

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  TD

  When the JW position on blood is the subject in question, I think the Jews often come off worse than they really should.

  It cannot be emphasized enough that the JW blood doctrine is far, far beyond anything that the Pharisees ever actually taught. Judaism holds preserving life as the very highest of all mitzvoth. With the exceptions of murder, idolatry and gross sexual misconduct, any requirement or restriction of the Law could be set aside in order to preserve life. In other words, the Pharisees themselves would have had no problem with blood transfusion.

  Tom
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  264

  Furuli's New Books--Attempt to Refute COJonsson

  by ros in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just heard that the norwegian watchtower apologist, rolf furuli, who esteems himself a biblical scholar of semetic languages, has completed the first of two volumes he plans to publish on the societys chronology, assyrian, babylonian, egyptian and persian chronology compared with the chronology of the bible.. title of this first volume is: persian chronology and the length of the babylonian exile of the jews.. i hear that although carl olof jonsson is not mentioned by name, or reference made to his book "gentile times reconsidered," it is nevertheless apparent that these volumes are an attempt to refute jonssons excellent study which has exposed the watchtowers 1914 date as total folly.. .

  the book can be ordered now from furulis new personal website:.

  http://folk.uio.no/rolffu/.

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  TD

  If I understand correctly, Mr. Furuli is not simply correlating scholarly opinion and secular evidence on the subject and then attempting to harmonize these with scripture as Mr. Jonsson has done. It appears that Furuli is attempting to reinterpret the secular evidence itself, prove that Parker & Dubberstein jumped to conclusions and got it wrong for the most part --in short, challenging the majority opinion If "Scholar" doesn't understand the difference at work here, then he/she is certainly no scholar.
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  35

  What's your favorite drink?

  by logansrun in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  god, i've been in a "fluff" mood lately!

  so, what's your favorite alcoholic beverage?

  mine: raspberry stoli cosmopolitan.

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  TD

  Rusty Nail:

  2 oz. Scotch

  1 oz. Drambuie
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  23

  Blood and Ron Rhoades

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  ron rhoades on blood

  for about 15 months i held an on-again off-again discussion with an apologist for the watchtower bible and tract society named ron rhoades.

  in this discussion rhoades goes to great lengths in his attempt to authenticate the wts doctrinal position on blood.

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  TD

  Considering the fact that WTS is getting more and more restrictive do you think they are likely to receive new light telling them that fractions may not be used after all?

  They might like to for consistency's sake, but it would be impossible. Blood fractions are everywhere. Depending on the manufacturer, even the MMR and Poliomyelitis vaccines may contain human albumin. The same is true for Erythropoietin, which has been recommended by Witness HLC members as part of an aggresive pre-operative strategy to avoid allogenic blood for years. Post exposure vaccines and antitoxins for such things as tetenus, diptheria, hepatitus often contain not only albumin, but gamma globulin as well. The death toll would skyrocket if the Witness community were deprived these things. Tom
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  23

  Blood and Ron Rhoades

  by Marvin Shilmer in

  1. watchtower
  2. medical

  ron rhoades on blood

  for about 15 months i held an on-again off-again discussion with an apologist for the watchtower bible and tract society named ron rhoades.

  in this discussion rhoades goes to great lengths in his attempt to authenticate the wts doctrinal position on blood.

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  TD

  I don’t envy Marvin the task of debating with someone that literally needs to be educated at every turn.

  How do you discuss the difference between consumption and transplantation/transfusion with someone who doesn’t understand that protein catabolization performed by the immune system is in many ways, incomparable with that performed by the digestive system?

  How do you discuss the language of the Decree with someone who doesn’t understand that you can’t simply plug in the definition of apachesthai that most suits your theology and still have an accurate translation? Could it be that there was a linguistic reason why even the Witnesses dropped the rendering “keep free from” around 1970?

  How do you discuss the question of blood fractions with someone that doesn’t realize that only one plasma fraction (gamma globulin) crosses as the result of an active transport mechanism and that all other blood fractions and components cross simply because no containment system is perfect?

  How do you discuss questions of legality with someone that doesn’t understand that life over property is a basic tenant of both the laws of God and man?

  How do you discuss an alleged prohibition on the “use” of blood with someone who sees nothing inconsistent about selectively opening a door he had already emphatically declared to be shut? Or are Witnesses prohibited from working in the healthcare industry altogether?

  Marvin --- You’re a better man than I am gunga din!

  Tom
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  26

  Harry Potter Mania

  by Shakita in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  my daughter and i just love the harry potter books.

  we are eagerly awaiting the 5th book in the series which should be delivered to my home on saturday.

  anyone here pre-order the book?.

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  TD

  I'm sure my daughter will be climbing the walls this Saturday waiting for her book to arrive. I read the first one out of curiosity when she came home from a book fair with it several years ago. It was a very enjoyable book.

  I didn't and don't see any great deal of difference between the "magic" depicted in Harry Potter and the magic depicited in the Chronicles of Narnia for example, which happened to be written by one of the greatest Christian thinkers of the 20th century.

  Tom
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  42

  Disfellowshipping

  by larc in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have read many stories here about those who have been disfellowshiped.

  they express the pain of the experience, and the emotional trauma they experience.

  i have to ask a question.

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  TD

  Craig's post got me thinking.

  In order to justify the tribunal from a scriptural standpoint, (i.e. letters written to entire congregations in the 1st century) JW's assert that the judicial committee actually represents the congregation. However the idea of a representitive minority acting as the agent of a constituent majority is democratic by its very nature. But everyone knows that JW elders are no longer elected by their respective congregations in anything remotely resembling a democratic process and JW literature since about the 1930's has been scornful of the very idea. Further, even after their appointment, JW elders are in no way required to represent the will of the congregation. This comes through loud and clear in Craig's quote from page 152 of the 1944 Watchtower.

  When it comes to judicial matters, the governorship of the JW elders conforms much more closely to a paternalistic model where those in authority may act in what they perceive to be the best interests of those under their jurisdiction, but the governed have neither rights nor responsibilities. JW's therefore repudiate their own reasoning tying their judicial process to the Bible.

  Larc mentioned in the opening post that the rules were known beforehand and that is certainly true in some instances. I'm not sure this takes into account the degree to which the rules are misrepresented. In other words, the alleged biblical basis for these rules certainly plays an important role in their acceptance by the potential convert.

  Tom
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  13

  INFILTRATE...

  by integ in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  for the case of our own "theocratic war strategy" how many here would be willing to go back to the.

  kingdom hall, put on a fake pretense of being in line with the org, try to be reinstated.

  go out in service,.

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  TD

  Actually the JW organization is far less trusting in the selective power of the 'Holy Spirit' than is Swan. Every JW convention has a Society man in place, manuscript in hand, ready to immediately pull the pull the plug if the speaker significatly deviates from a word for word oral presentation of that material. Unless he was a member of the JW governing body, a rogue speaker would be lucky to get two sentences of his own out.

  This doesn't seem to be any big secret either. I accompanied my JW wife to her convention last year and noticed this individual following along with the speaker. My father-in-law, who is a JW of some note in this neck of the woods explained this individual's function when I inquired and seemed quite proud of the whole thing.

  I suspect this "arrangement" may have been put into place in the early 80's, but am not positive on that point.
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  18

  I need your help

  by SpiceItUp in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  so the good news will start now...... some of you may remember that i stumped my mom http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/51940/1.ashx.

  anyway here is the update.

  i went on vacation but my mom to my knowledge did not pick up coc and read it.

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  TD

  Stephanie,

  JW's believe that Jerusalem fell in 607.

  Briefly, they arrive at this date by accepting 539 for the fall of Babylon, assuming that the captive Jews would have returned to their homeland two years later in 537 and counting 70 years back from this date. (They arrive at the 1914 date by counting 2520 years forward from 607, but that's a slightly different topic.)

  It sounds like your mother has gotten herself turned around here. You could perhaps refer her to the JW Bible Dictionary "Insight on the Scriptures"?

  Tom
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  35

  My Becoming a JW

  by Juliana in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was raised non-religious.

  i don't call myself an atheist as such because i don't like to label anyone, but i don't actually believe in god (though i am christian in background, and several branches of family family are roman catholic).

  my fiance knows this.

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  TD

  Greetings Juliana,

  My wife is JW. I am not.

  I think some here might possibly have been a little hard on your fiance. Avoiding the stigma within the JW community associated with wedding an "unbeliever" is no doubt a factor, but probably not his primary motive. If he truly subscribes to the JW worldview, then he honestly wants to steer you away from the "broad road leading to destruction" and save your life at Armageddon, which for JW's is always just around the corner. So from his point of view, "love" certainly has something to do with wishing you to convert.

  It's also a great paradox within the JW community that average rank & file members are often woefully ignorant of what their parent organization taught just 30 - 50 years ago. It's quite likely that your fiance would be inclined to argue with some of the things (e.g. Changing views on transfusion and organ transplants) that have been posted in this thread. (Of course a good way to resolve that issue would be to simply send him here and see how he fares!)

  Despite these excuses I've made, everything that's been posted in this thread is true in my opinion. Women, especially intelligent women are not treated well within the JW community in many ways. Even for the men, the term "intellectual freedom" is pretty much a meaningless concept. Anyone, male or female, that does not toe the line is subject to exclusion and ostracism. For all practical purposes, you either accept all of it or none of it. The JW community is so intellectually sterile in fact that concepts as basic to a healthy society as "loyal opposition" are virtually nonexistent.

  Tom