TD

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Posts by TD

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  26

  QUOTES and "Breach of contract"

  by hamsterbait in

  1. watchtower
  2. scandals

  in the writ just served on quotes, one item seems to stand out.. if they claim that as a baptized dub, when he left he was in breach by quoting their literature, does this tell us that the new baptism vows mean that the candidate has entered into a contract in association with the organization?

  after all contractual partners in business are referred to as "associates".

  if this is the case the legal ramifications are interesting.. .

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  TD

  I'm wondering the same thing as ithinkisee. How can it be know whether the quotes came from the EULA protected CD or from some moldy old WT bound volumes? Are there "canary traps" built into the CD text?
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  7

  My new response to complaints that I am bitter :-))

  by Dogpatch in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i liked a post by terry walstrom a few days ago about the watchtower and asked him to tailor it for jws and others who email me, saying i am "just bitter about the watchtower and what they did to me.

  " i get several a week.

  so now i have a page to lead them to for a perfect answer.

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  TD

  Yep --- That's a keeper.
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  23

  Those who saw 1914...

  by OldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  let's do a little exercise:.

  if the generation that saw 1914 will not die before armageddon, as specifically stated by the prophet class (the faithful and discreet slave, per current understanding), how many are left?.

  i'll be generous and say that a nine year old could grasp the sharp 1914 changes jws cleave to...well, cleave to religiously, i suppose.. according to the population division of the department of economic and social affairs of the united nations secretariat, world population prospects: the 2004 revision, accessed online at esa.un.org/unpp, sept. 1, 2005, there are about 265,000 persons age 100 or older (that is, who were alive in 1905) in 2005. in other words, world-wide there are fewer from the "generation" that saw 1914 than many city populations in the u.s. alone.. now, suppose for the sake of ludicrous forebearance, we say that the prophet class is allowed a mulligan (a concept flatly disallowed by deuteronomy 18:20-22 and 1 john 4:1).

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  TD

  Hi Cygnus,

  Thanks for the quote. "Age" is a viable translation of genea but I'm not sure if it makes for a workable sentence if "Pass away" (parelthe) is a reference to death

  The basic construction is:

  A will not happen until B happens

  The temporal preposition, "Until" demands posteriority of A relative to B. If A is the death of a certain group of individuals, then we're pretty much stuck with the idea that B occurs within the lifetime of these individuals. (This is why I don't believe the sentence is applicable to anyone apart from Jesus' immediate audience.)

  I think the JW writers thought they could play around with the definition of who these individuals were based upon other possible meanings of genea but it just doesn't work because in so doing, they made A and B simultaneous and reduced the whole statement to tautology.

  This generation (The contemporaneous people who see the "sign" but take no note) will not pass away (Be executed at Armageddon) until all these things (The entire "sign" including Armageddon) occur.

  The wicked generation won't be executed at Armageddon until Armageddon. ---Well duh!
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  10

  1975 - the nostalgia, the mystery, the atmosphere ....

  by GetBusyLiving in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i really find the past witness implication of 1975 as the beginning of the "great tribulation" facinating.

  was it as disappointing as the 1995 "new understanding" of the generation spoken of by jesus?

  how were the majority of witnesses able to forget about it and just continue on?

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  TD

  There was a kingdom hall built in Maryland in 1969. The presiding overseer was very respected in JW circles and moved around in what I call, "Rarified strata." When it came time for the dedication talk, N.H. Knorr flew in and gave it.

  Anyhow this building has a large basement formed by super-duper thick slabs of reinforced concrete -- a veritable bomb shelter. It even had a full kitchen. Knorr was ecstatic about this and commended the congregation for their spiritual maturity in taking to heart the "Warnings that were being given" and for their foresight with "Armageddon just around the corner." (nudge, nudge, wink, wink...)

  Everyone that attended Tuesday night book-study (at least) understood exactly what he was talking about. You could cut the excitement with a knife.

  Today, the "Spiritually weak ones wanted to set a date for the end" excuse brands the one giving it as a FOOL, just as surely as if it was stenciled on their forehead.
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  23

  Those who saw 1914...

  by OldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  let's do a little exercise:.

  if the generation that saw 1914 will not die before armageddon, as specifically stated by the prophet class (the faithful and discreet slave, per current understanding), how many are left?.

  i'll be generous and say that a nine year old could grasp the sharp 1914 changes jws cleave to...well, cleave to religiously, i suppose.. according to the population division of the department of economic and social affairs of the united nations secretariat, world population prospects: the 2004 revision, accessed online at esa.un.org/unpp, sept. 1, 2005, there are about 265,000 persons age 100 or older (that is, who were alive in 1905) in 2005. in other words, world-wide there are fewer from the "generation" that saw 1914 than many city populations in the u.s. alone.. now, suppose for the sake of ludicrous forebearance, we say that the prophet class is allowed a mulligan (a concept flatly disallowed by deuteronomy 18:20-22 and 1 john 4:1).

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  TD

  Prior to 1995, the JW's had clearly taught that the "passing away" of "this generation" was death from old age. For example, the publication The Truth That Leads To Eternal Life stated on page 97:

  This generation is getting up in years now. A great number of them have already passed away in death.

  However the redefinition of the word, "Generation" that they were planning required a redefinition of the term, "Pass Away" as well. This was slipped in

  one month prior to the November 1st Watchtower dealing with the word "Generation."

  In an article entitled "Guard Your Sense Of Urgency", the October 1st, 1995 issue of The Watchtower stated on page 28:

  "Jehovah God in his infinite wisdom has always given his servants enough information for them to keep their sense of urgency alive. He has kindly assured us that we are in "the last days" of this corrupt system of things. (2 Timothy 3:1) We are continually reminded that we must shine as illuminators until the generation in which we live passes away in the great tribulation, its climax being at HarMagedon.Philippians 2:15; Revelation 7:14; 16:14, 16". (emphasis mine)

  Notice how the "passing away" of the "generation in which we live" is not linked with death from old age but with death at Armagedon. All that remained to complete this transformation is to claim that the "generation in which we live" is what Jesus really had in mind when he used the term at Matthew 24:34.

  Sure enough, one month later, after having argued against defining a generation by its chronological limits The November 1, 1995 Watchtower stated on page 19:

  "Therefore, in the final fulfillment of Jesus prophecy today, this generation apparently refers to the peoples of earth who see the sign of Christs presence but fail to mend their ways."

  Together, these two adjustments reduce the sentence to nonsense.

  For example, no matter whether it was right or wrong, the JW interpretation of Matthew 24:34 prior to this article at least made grammatical sense when the definitions are plugged in:

  Truly I say to you that this generation (those born around 1914) will by no means pass away (all die off from old age) until all these things (the entire sign from parousia to Armageddon) occurs.

  It's impossible to do this with the new definitions and come up with a coherent sentence.
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  23

  Those who saw 1914...

  by OldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  let's do a little exercise:.

  if the generation that saw 1914 will not die before armageddon, as specifically stated by the prophet class (the faithful and discreet slave, per current understanding), how many are left?.

  i'll be generous and say that a nine year old could grasp the sharp 1914 changes jws cleave to...well, cleave to religiously, i suppose.. according to the population division of the department of economic and social affairs of the united nations secretariat, world population prospects: the 2004 revision, accessed online at esa.un.org/unpp, sept. 1, 2005, there are about 265,000 persons age 100 or older (that is, who were alive in 1905) in 2005. in other words, world-wide there are fewer from the "generation" that saw 1914 than many city populations in the u.s. alone.. now, suppose for the sake of ludicrous forebearance, we say that the prophet class is allowed a mulligan (a concept flatly disallowed by deuteronomy 18:20-22 and 1 john 4:1).

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  TD

  
  

  Ah. So they lied in 1984. I see. They were false prophets then, but NOW they are true prophets

  LOL....They have lied every single day of every single year for a long, long time. Their "New" understanding of Matthew 24:34 practically destroys their "Great Crowd" doctrine it its current form. (e.g. If a final generation before the "End" cannot be identified, then neither can their "Great Crowd" be identified either.)

  What lie in 1984 do you have in mind?
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  23

  Those who saw 1914...

  by OldSoul in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  let's do a little exercise:.

  if the generation that saw 1914 will not die before armageddon, as specifically stated by the prophet class (the faithful and discreet slave, per current understanding), how many are left?.

  i'll be generous and say that a nine year old could grasp the sharp 1914 changes jws cleave to...well, cleave to religiously, i suppose.. according to the population division of the department of economic and social affairs of the united nations secretariat, world population prospects: the 2004 revision, accessed online at esa.un.org/unpp, sept. 1, 2005, there are about 265,000 persons age 100 or older (that is, who were alive in 1905) in 2005. in other words, world-wide there are fewer from the "generation" that saw 1914 than many city populations in the u.s. alone.. now, suppose for the sake of ludicrous forebearance, we say that the prophet class is allowed a mulligan (a concept flatly disallowed by deuteronomy 18:20-22 and 1 john 4:1).

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  TD

  
  

  But Old Soul,

  When do they actually "recant" anything? The most they ever admit to is, "refinement" or "adjustment"

  In 1995, they didn't just redefine the word "Generation," they redefined the meaning of the term, "Pass away" as well.

  To JW's, "Passing Away" no longer means dying of old age; it means execution at armageddon. (This happened exactly one month before the word, "Generation" was redefined.) Therefore "Passing away" no longer has anything to do with human longevity.
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  41

  "This just can't last much longer...."

  by BrendaCloutier in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  i went over and visited my parents today.

  my mom broke her hip while we were in hawaii, and i've been mostly house/bed ridden myself since we got home.

  so i finally got over there today.. we talked a little about the hurricane, which was on the news she turned off.

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  TD

  "This just can't last much longer...."

  American JW's said this during the Cuban missile crises and when JFK was assassinated and all during the Vietnam War and all during the Ford administration's wage and price freezes and all during the Arab oil embargo and all during the Carter administration's double digit interest rates and when Reagen was shot and during the first Gulf War......

  In short, the JW's I know have been saying this as far back as I can remember.
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  43

  Can someone explain the generation change?

  by feelinglost in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  after being on here now for a little while, i decided to ask my mother this weekend about whether armageddon is still supposed to come before the generation of 1914 is gone.

  so this leaves me a little confused- is this right, is this what they still teach?

  or has something changed?

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  TD

  ---Not only is it meaningless, it practically destroys the doctrine of the "Great Crowd" No wonder many Witnesses have trouble accepting it.
• 
  14

  Pi and the Universe-Interesting

  by IronGland in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  add them together .

  add the result to the second largest number .

  inside that room, they're just numbers.

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  TD

  Thanks IronGland, that was good. The style reminds me of Martin Gardner.

  No mention of John Conway?