OHappyDay

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Posts by OHappyDay

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  19

  The necessity of "Spiritualizing" prophecy fullfillment

  by refiners fire in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  the watchtower organization has certainly, in times past, taken an absolute position on the matter of interpreting prophetic scripture passages.

  but they are not the only ones guilty of that crime.

  it is easy to demonstrate the same pattern from adventism, and ( as i have done previously) from many other churches of the ?born again?

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  OHappyDay

  In like manner, the concept of applying to one's own organization all the good parts of prophecy is also very old. The Essenes of Qumran did it in the first century. Maybe that's where the early Christians got it, too. In fact, the early Christians and the Essenes picked some of the very same passages of Scripture to apply to their own organizations, using such to prove that each one was the "true" religion.

  It is only of late that the Society has even admitted that many prophecies in the Bible were fulfilled already on the Jews in ancient times. To offer second and third "fulfillments" of those prophecies is little more than speculation. To apply all the good stuff to themselves is pure chutzpah. Christendom, of course, is always the bad guy. Call that Interpretation Made Simple.
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  14

  Reformers repeat mistake....

  by mizpah in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm reading a fascinating book, god's best seller, by brian moynahan.

  in it he documents how a few men like wycliff and tyndale risked their lives to make the bible available to the common people.

  the catholic church violently opposed these efforts and persecuted all who were involved in the translating, publishing and distributing the scriptures.

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  OHappyDay

  Nor do I doubt for a minute that the Powers That Be among Witnesses would burn "heretics" and "apostates" at the stake if they could get away with it. Or stone them to death as the first century Jewish leadership did.

  As it is, the worst sort of spiritual and psychological damage is visited on dissenters, as "warnings" to others not to mess with the Governing Body. The GB has eaten its own children alive (Ray Franz and others come to mind), and has no regard for Average Joe Witness.

  In this organization it is impossible to tell the Emperor that he has no clothes on. The Emperor finds some weird delight in strutting around naked, having been exposed already by those more concerned with Truth than with hypocrisy.

  Poet Robert Burns' dictum that "The best laid schemes o' mice and men gang aft a-gley," has happened big time with the Society. Poor Russell must be squirming in his grave, if he could.
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  39

  Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-12-03 WT Study

  by blondie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  comments you will not hear at the 10-12-03 wt study

  review comments will be in black and parentheses ().

  wt quotes will be in

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  OHappyDay

  Once again where is Jesus is these equations?

  I think I found him lurking once in paragraph 8, but the question for that paragraph is really about Ecclesiastes 9:11...

  Our lessons and studies could just as easily throw the New Testament and the words of Christ away.

  After all, we are told that the New Testament was written for "the anointed" anyway and that most if not all of it applies to them.

  So obviously we lowly "other sheep" are no concern of the New Testament or of Christ.

  I guess we need another Bible to be written for us, and another Savior?

  Oh, that's right...the Organization is our Savior!!! How could I ever forget???
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  51

  Jesus came in 1874 and then changed to 1914, no problem, per FDS

  by garybuss in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  prefatory note .

  (to watch tower reprints wtb&ts 1919) .

  the watch tower is unique among all the publications in the world.

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  OHappyDay

  At least the Seventh Day Adventists allow their people to have a life while they are "tarrying."

  The latest from our leaders is that we are to be "ministers" 24/7, twenty-four hours a day, seven days a week, and should always dress "appropriately" even at home, so as to be able to preach at a moment's notice. We have no life, except to preach.

  A Seventh Day Adventist church where I live has built housing for the elderly. What do Witnesses do with our elderly? Pat them on the back and send them away without even the watch. Any who have "put the kingdom first" are likely to have little else than promises as they face their "golden" years.
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  14

  Reformers repeat mistake....

  by mizpah in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i'm reading a fascinating book, god's best seller, by brian moynahan.

  in it he documents how a few men like wycliff and tyndale risked their lives to make the bible available to the common people.

  the catholic church violently opposed these efforts and persecuted all who were involved in the translating, publishing and distributing the scriptures.

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  OHappyDay

  Hello, mizpah. Yes, 20 years ago a breath of spiritual fresh air flowed through the Society. By now, it could have produced a more hospitable, loving, Christ-centered organization. But alas, it was viciously snuffed out, and we are mired in the same dictatorial atmosphere as before.

  Because "power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely," it is only the "apostates" who accomplish anything good. The apostle Paul was accused of being an "apostate" from Moses (Acts 21:21) and early Christianity was considered to be an apostasy from Judaism. It is autocratic religion that makes "apostasy" necessary.
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  16

  The 1900years old F&D slave ??

  by MacHislopp in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  this topic is based on a statement published by the wtbs inc. on

  "jehovah's witnesss in the divine purpose " page 140 :

  "jehovah's witnesss in the divine purpose " page 95

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  OHappyDay

  Yes, RR, we Witnesses are paranoid schizos. We honor Russell to a degree, but throw his writings in the trash bin of "old light." Whenever we speak of Bible Students we say "As Jehovah's Witnesses used to be known," as if Bible Students do not still exist who are not Rutherford's folk (Jehovaha's Witnesses).

  It's a real identity crisis. Yes, we are Bible Students. No, we are not Bible Students. Yes, Russell was our founder. No, Russell was just one of many WTS presidents. Yes, he was a wise man. No, he was misguided.

  We want to have our cake and eat it too.
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  19

  Comments You Will Not Hear at the 10-5-03 WT Study

  by blondie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  wt article quotes are in

  quotes from other wt publications are in

  we have been encouraged to do everything possible (a "do more" phrase) to promote true worship so that we may walk in god's name forever.. .

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  OHappyDay

  Too bad we couldn't just take Micah's words as he wrote them. No, we had to "interpret" them to mean just the opposite!

  The quotation of Micah 6:8 that you quoted from Eugene Peterson's The Message Bible translation is much more clear and honest than the Society's version: "What GOD is looking for in men and women...It's quite simple: Do what is fair and just to your neighbor, be compassionate and loyal in your love, and don't take yourself too seriously -- take God seriously."

  Peterson has captured Micah's non-legalistic spirit much better than the NWT has. And the Society has violated every precept that Micah writes here. They have taken what is "quite simple" and subjected it to Pharisee-like tradition. Simple principles they have transformed into a Talmud of thousands of rules and regulations.

  Yes, too bad.
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  90

  WTS Chronology(Oslo Hypothesis) from Vicar;Trinity College Fellow,Cambridge

  by Gamaliel in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  gamaliel report, september 2003: .

  the source of the 606 and 607 bce date for nebuchadnezzar's destruction of jerusalem was originally based on misunderstanding ptolemy and some poor biblical exegesis.

  interestingly, a lot more jehovah's witnesses are now aware of second adventist origins for c.t.russell's ideas.

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  OHappyDay

  What??? We got our precious 1914 doctrine from a Reverend? A member of Christendom??? An apostate?

  No wonder we are having so much trouble with the thing!

  How can light continue to share this darkness? 1914. Egad, get rid of it! It's paganism!!!
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  8

  First Century ' Governing body' Part Two

  by MacHislopp in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  governing body .

  "governing body' !!!

  the governing body is there.

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  OHappyDay

  Excellent work! The Society has to go back and forth on this because it is attempting to prove something that did not exist in the First Century: a Christian governing body. There was no governing body in the WT sense, only a few Christians who by their association with Christ and moral authority answered questions and gave certain directions for other Christians. Other than settling, or attempting to settle the question of circumcision, there is no evidence that this group did anything else.

  None of the New Testament writers mention a governing body or refer to the authority of such a body in their writings. Their authority was always Jesus Christ himself, the head of the Christian congregation. They all had the holy spirit, they didn't need a governing body.

  And if Charles Russell was a member of the "governing body" why do we place most of his teachings in the wastebasket today?
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  24

  Comments You Will Not Hear at The 9-28-03 WT Study

  by blondie in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  comments you will not hear at the 9-28-03 wt study

  reviewer comments are in black and parentheses ().

  wt article quotes are in

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  OHappyDay

  Thanks for the recommendations, all. Blondie, I may yet get to where you are now.

  There were no referents to the condemnation of the leadership in Micah's prophecy in the comments at my Hall. In fact, I had overlooked this obvious fact myself. Yes, it is to the leadership of the Society that such words should be applied, if at all today.

  We are fond of pointing out second and third fulfillments of prophecy, bringing them into our own days. I am not sure that the prophets had any such thing in mind at all. But it is convenient for the Society to apply all the bad stuff to Christendom or to the rank and file.

  I also wonder why the Society is stuck on the old terminology for masturbation: self-abuse, rather than the more modern one: self-pleasuring. Depends on one's outlook, I suppose. The Bible says nothing at all about masturbation though I am sure people did it back then too. (Onan's sin was not masturbation, as even the Society admits.)