russell an unnoticed freemason ?.
according to the partisans of russell's membership of the freemasonry, the russells, father and son, would have been particularly important masons, proves by the fact that russell would have build an masonic organization to realize the claimed purpose of the the freemasonry: a plot to destroy christianity.. .
obviously in support of their thesis, these partisans do not bring any masonic document proving the membership of the father and the son to the masonry.
I recently went to a Mason site and they said that Russell was not a Mason.
They pointed out that the WT speaks negatively about Free Masonry which
gives further evidence that he was not a member.
Good afternoon, Larc.
Good point, I guess, but we know that Russell did practice a lot of
things that the current leadership denounces, e.g. celebrating holidays, etc.
The fact that the Wt is negative about it NOW doesn't mean that Russell
didn't participate THEN.
tj
a man decided it was time to shed some excess pounds.
he took his new diet seriously, even changing his driving route to avoid his favorite bakery.
one morning, however, he arrived at work carrying a gigantic coffeecake.
A man decided it was time to shed some excess pounds. He took his new diet seriously, even changing his driving route to avoid his favorite bakery.
One morning, however, he arrived at work carrying a gigantic coffeecake. Everyone scolded him, but his smile remained cherubic.
"This is a very special coffeecake," he explained. "I accidentally drove by the bakery this morning and there in the window were a host of goodies. I felt this was no accident, so I prayed, 'Lord, if you want me to have one of those delicious coffeecakes, let me have a parking place directly in front of the bakery.'"
"And sure enough," he continued, "the eighth time around the block, there it was!"
russell an unnoticed freemason ?.
according to the partisans of russell's membership of the freemasonry, the russells, father and son, would have been particularly important masons, proves by the fact that russell would have build an masonic organization to realize the claimed purpose of the the freemasonry: a plot to destroy christianity.. .
obviously in support of their thesis, these partisans do not bring any masonic document proving the membership of the father and the son to the masonry.
Nice work, Chasson.
If Russells, fathers and son, were mason, they were only rank and file, not
important masons of this city. None of these two man were considered
deserving being mentioned, even a line.
This is the list of the members of the lodge number 223 of Allegheny in
1874, at this date, the father of Russell is still alive and is supposed to be an
active mason in this same lodge as asserts it mister Leblanc's site. There is
no Russell in this list in 1874. On the other hand in 1874, Russell?s son does
not seem to be introduced neither.
If Russell was mason, he was not really recognized by his peers who forgot
to speak about it, in the same way, even in the history of the city and the
County, Russells father and son did not stand out the history of their city.
Then Russell an unnoticed mason? Maybe not a mason at all.
I happened to be thumbing through the pages here and came across this
thread of yours. It was a good thing I did. Reading for oneself is always the
best when forming opinions about what someone said or didn't say.
Yesterday, someone seemed to indicate that your research had led you
to a definitive conclusion. They said, "... Chasson ... researched
Masonic history in the Pittsburgh area, and he uncovered nothing
which would indicate Russell or his father were Masons." While that
statement is true, it leaves open the possibility that they WERE, a
conclusion I thought impossible based on the statement I read
yesterday that referenced your work. It doesn't matter to me one way
or the other, but I appreciate your research just the same. Thanks.
tj
keeping a balance in what is allowed and what is not is very difficult and is more difficult if i have to take action against one person when i have let other things go by others.. it would help a lot if we could stop the personal attacks and some of the name calling & insults that are thrown about.
i know personalities do and will clash but please disagree about the subjects being discussed and not get personal!.
if you think someone is deliberately trying to cause arguments please do not respond to them as this is giving in to what they want.
Kismet,
Re: peer moderation. T'is a slippery slope my friend. I think it sounds great in theory but it can also be used against people holding an unpopular viewpoint. It would be a great way of muzzling someone. It also presents the danger of this forum becoming a popularity contest. I personally had enough of cliques while in the Borg. I can't help but think that will happen again.
I agree with you 100%, my friend.
Your viewpoint was definitely on my mind when I suggested such a thing as peer review. Being one of the least popular, most vilified posters, I realize(d) that I might be a victim in such an arrangement. It was just an idea, since <going out on a limb here> I trust Simon's judgment. He's been amazingly fair so far.
On the other hand, I have always admired what the bible says about open trials 'at the city gates' as opposed to secret tribunals ala the governing body and their beloved judicial committees. In such an procedure, fairness is generally something you can count on. Not always... I know.
Enjoyed your viewpoint, Kis, as usual.
peace,
tj
hello friends,.
in a thread over at witnesses.net entitled "society bracing for law suits" fellow jw's are taking swipes at ray franz.
not too long ago, while i was still under the wt spell i also would have similarily spoken abusively of ray.
A person is brave who knows the dangers but proceeds anyway. In the context of the Watchtower Bible &Tract Society, Ray Franz' legacy will equal that of all the past reformers of the Church. Men (people) like him and Ed Dunlap are, for the lack of a better word, great. They are as much heroes as men at war who are willing to sacrifice their literal lives for the sake of the freedom of others. In my view, that is exactly what Ray did for me.
One who finds fault with the Pope is wise to expect one billion instant enemies. In finding fault with 'God's Mouthpiece,' aka the governing body, Ray had to know the personal consequences, not the least of which is that 5 million people would judge him in the unkindest of terms without a hearing. But time is on his side - a lie has a short life, but the truth lives forever. Thousands of us owe Ray a huge debt of gratitude for telling the truth.
keeping a balance in what is allowed and what is not is very difficult and is more difficult if i have to take action against one person when i have let other things go by others.. it would help a lot if we could stop the personal attacks and some of the name calling & insults that are thrown about.
i know personalities do and will clash but please disagree about the subjects being discussed and not get personal!.
if you think someone is deliberately trying to cause arguments please do not respond to them as this is giving in to what they want.
Hello Simon,
It's your nickel of course and you can allow whoever and whatever you want on YOUR board. You have shown tremendous patience and wisdom in your management of the board and none of us can fault you. With Friday, personally I found his posts to be more and more inflammatory and disrespectful, both of the freedom of speech we have here but also of the feelings of virtually every poster who talked to him, and I made the personal decision to not respond to him.
Disfellowshipping or account deactivation is an extremely serious step and imo should be taken only when all other efforts have failed. I was under the impression that your arrangement before deactivation was to contact the person via email to let them know that their continued participation was under review. That might be a good way to go about it.
Another thought I had was a system of peer review, a trial before the city gates, as it were. Perhaps you could make it a matter of a vote: have the membership give their opinions and what they base them on and allow the Fridays of JW.com to answer the charges. Then, the offender would be able to own up to his poor behavior and have a chance to change before getting booted. I don't know how you'd set it up (maybe just start a thread?), but that might be the ideal way to go.
I don't envy you. It's waaay cool that you'd ask us, though.
tj
there is a program on here at the moment called 'space' and last week was about the sheer number of stars.
for each grain of sand on every beach on the planet there are millions or billions of stars.. if there was a god, that would make us smaller than something minescule sat on an atom.
and yet they claim that he 'sent his firstborn son to die for us' (who incidentally created all this?)..
Interesting program, Simon.
I remember when I saw http://oposite.stsci.edu/pubinfo/PR/96/01/HDF.html). The telescope focused on a part of the night sky that was so small it "covers a speck of the sky only about the width of a dime located 75 feet away." The photo captured at least 1500 galaxies!
There was a PBS (public television) program late one night, and when the picture came on the screen, it was so awesome I nearly cried. There HAS TO BE life elsewhere.
tj
... i used to wondered about all the time when i was an active dub:.
why is it that men who study with elders make ministerial servant and elder way ahead of others who have been reaching out for years?.
why do circuit overseers spend all of their time with the spiritually strong and never follow (or set) a christ-like example of visiting those that 'need a physician,' the spiritally weak, like those in nursing homes and irregular or inactive publishers.. jehovah sent his number one son to the earth... the only-begotten.
Hello, good people. A confession...
These questions I posted are questions I "use to wonder about." I don't wonder anymore. I've found the answers to all of them... well, except the one about poppy growing on Patmos... but that was a jab at John for writing what he wrote. The guy must've been on something...
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JUSTAMOM,
You said,
*Now lets see if they wouuld allow themselves to be housed during a cos visit by individuals that would be viewed down upon. Like sinners, harlots and tax collectors. Jesus did.
Lets see if they would truly be happy with fish and bread. (simple poor budget meal by a widow)
Never may that happen, though the one time I ate a meal with a traveling rep was at a lowly sister's house. It was the only time in my life I ate quiche. No joke. Pretty good stuff... always meant to have it again, but haven't gotten around to it, yet.
*Ever got tired of standing at the end of a Sunday convention PRAYER because he was so long-winded.....???
uh, they give long prayers? I never noticed...
[Paul's] letters were NOT written under inspiration.
Wow. I didn't know that. So when he said "all scripture is inspired of god..."
Actually, that leads to another question I always had. Since so many books and letters are considered apocrypha and not approved for inclusion in the "real" bible founded by Constantine, which books of the current lineup of bible books REALLY WERE inspired. I'm glad you've narrowed it down for me.
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Shelby,
The only 'inspired' writing, that is, 'scripture'... is that which was DIRECTED by my Father, through his Son... to be written... and that is the Revelation given to John. That one in fact SAYS John was told to write it.
So we have John's word that the Revelation was inspired. Okay. Further, you helped 'answer' a question I asked (your?) MOM when you said, "In addition to John, all of the major prophets, the Psalmists, and Moses, were told to write things down... these, then, are the 'scriptures'. Everything else [isn't]
Cool.
Anyway, I will be going now, with my long-winded self. I hope your questions are answered.
You? "Long-winded"? Now why would you go and say a fool thing like that, Shelby?
peace,
tj
i pulled this out of the "berry case evaluated" thread so my questions would not be overlooked:.
i just want to make sure i fully understand, as stated here as fact, that judah schroeder was never, is or ever will be, in any way, shape or form, a "representative" or "director" for any part of the wtbts; no matter what corporate name you call them.. what has he done and/ or what were his "duties"?.
please, a history of the man, if you will.. in appreciation, skally
MadApostate,
I'm not sure what you are asking??? Are you looking to argue semantics- ie the meaning of the word "connection"?
No, MA, I do not argue semantics.
I was under the impression that Russell may have been 'connected' with Masonry in the sense of having studied with or been a member of - , that's all. I got that impression from a cursory research on some of the exjw sites. I may have mentioned: I don't care either way, just curious. I know all *I* will ever need to know about Russell, Rutherford, Knorr, etal.
When you said, "Chasson had researched Masonic history in the Pittsburgh area and uncovered nothing which would indicate Russell or his father were Masons," that was all I needed to hear. That was the 'connection' I was asking about. As far as you know, Russell was never a Mason.
Thank you.
peace,
tj
... i used to wondered about all the time when i was an active dub:.
why is it that men who study with elders make ministerial servant and elder way ahead of others who have been reaching out for years?.
why do circuit overseers spend all of their time with the spiritually strong and never follow (or set) a christ-like example of visiting those that 'need a physician,' the spiritally weak, like those in nursing homes and irregular or inactive publishers.. jehovah sent his number one son to the earth... the only-begotten.
Bigboi,
The first person who studied with me was a well respected elder ... if I had gotten baptized while studying, I'm sure I would've been juiced in by the time I turned 18.
You're joking... get outta here!!
Guys who had been around a while, but never advanced to higher positions in the org always seemed to have an air of independence about them. Either that or they had had personal conflicts with someone well known, a couple of elders, or had complained about the way things were in the congregation. They don't want anyone to rock the boat, ya heard?
Sounds like someone I know... can you say "teejay"?
... I'll have to agree that help for those with problems and difficulties is woefullly lacking. As long as everything is on the up and up, then you're cool. As soon as problems surface, they run from you like the plague. I think too many ppl see problems as evidence of Jah's disapproval.
To be honest, I'd forgotten about that excuse, er, I mean reason for staying clear of fellow brothers and sisters with problems. But don't they know about the many bible examples of righteous people who had bad times? Shouldn't that tell them that bad things happen to good people? <rhetorical questions> Oh, I forgot... the Watchtower Magazine supercedes the Holy Bible... dummy me. What was I thinking?
The high-school ... was known as the Jehovah-witness school... some elders' [kids participated in organizing] PROM and CLASS NIGHT. I still believe that the only reason nothing was done about it was because they were elder's kids.
You're joking... get outta here!!
life's a bitch with a g-string and a twelve pack of Busch.
My goodness, Bigboi! How could you say something like that? That's a terrible thing to say! I can't stand Busch! (that line makes me laugh, and I feel guilty for laughing... you soooo bad, Big... so very bad!)
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Why do Circuit Overseers spend all of their time with the spiritually strong and never follow (or set) a Christ-like example of visiting those that 'need a physician,' the spiritally weak, like those in nursing homes and irregular or inactive publishers.They follow the biblical principle "to he that has, more will be given... and to he that has little, what he does have will be taken away.
Thanks, Ballistic. I knew there was a verse somewhere in there they were 'following.'
btw, cool name. If you ever get mad at the board and decide to leave, (believe it or not, some have, y' know) I have a real cool post I wanna use: "Why have you gone, Ballistic?"
peace,
tj
