while traveling near tampa, florida i passed the "jehovah's witness assembly hall" and was struck by the fact that that must be where they make them.
gene spafford .
religion is the perfect justification for tyranny, because it doesn't require an ounce of reason or a shred of proof.
If you can't beat them, arrange to have them beaten. -- George Carlin
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it. --
Andre Gide
I was going to buy a copy of "The Power of Positive Thinking," and then I thought: What the hell good would that do? -- Ronnie Shakes
i thought it would be interesting for people to just post a few things about themselves so we can get to know each other just a bit.. try posting 10 facts about your life.. joel.
1. i was born and raised in south georgia.. 2. my favorite subject in school was math.. 3. i was in the fulltime service (bethel and pioneer) for 4 years.. 4. my favorite color is blue.. 5. mitch and i have been together over 12 years.. 6. we live in a suburb of atlanta georgia.. 7. we love to eat out and have friends over for dinner and board games.. 8. the only sport i was ever any good at is tennis.. 9. my favorite tv show of all time is the simpsons.. 10. we are both naturists and wish we could lay on the beach naked every day.
it's obvious that the sense of freedom is a dominant.
feeling among most persons here, but it would be .
interesting to hear in what way(s) you feel you .
bttt
dr albert ellis has identified 10 irrational beliefs that can influence us and contribute to over reacting in specific situations.. knowing them is the first step in taking back your personal power and not becoming a casuality of such irrational thought.these screwy beliefs tend to make us 'awfulize,think in terms of 'they should,i should' and dysfunctional rationalizations.. 1. worrying too much about what other people think of you.
excessive worrying creates a strong fear of rejection.. these folks will ignore the self to please others or will display this insecurity by attacking others in order to stay distant and detached.. 2. i must not fail at important tasks,and if i do it's terrible and i can't stand it.. 3.people and things should always turn out the way i want them to-and if they don't it's awful,terrible and horrible,and i can't stand it.. 4.if any of the first 3 bad events happens(if im not liked or respected,if i fail,or if things don't turn out as i'd like-then i'll always blame someone for it!
they acted wrongly,as they should not have done,and they are rotten people for acting in that terrible way!.
btt
i thought it would be interesting for people to just post a few things about themselves so we can get to know each other just a bit.. try posting 10 facts about your life.. joel.
1. i was born and raised in south georgia.. 2. my favorite subject in school was math.. 3. i was in the fulltime service (bethel and pioneer) for 4 years.. 4. my favorite color is blue.. 5. mitch and i have been together over 12 years.. 6. we live in a suburb of atlanta georgia.. 7. we love to eat out and have friends over for dinner and board games.. 8. the only sport i was ever any good at is tennis.. 9. my favorite tv show of all time is the simpsons.. 10. we are both naturists and wish we could lay on the beach naked every day.
You Know,
Of all your posts, this one of yours was my absolute favorite. You let the facade drop.... very good, my man. Very good.
peace,
tj
p.s. thanks, Joel.
hello friends,.
in a thread over at witnesses.net entitled "society bracing for law suits" fellow jw's are taking swipes at ray franz.
not too long ago, while i was still under the wt spell i also would have similarily spoken abusively of ray.
Good evening, Larc. I've been meaning to tell you some things. I might as well now.
You say that it bothers you that I think there are cliques on the board, that you "don't see a we-they status thing." You then promptly proceed to list, out loud, as it were -- naming names (including your own and that of your wife!) -- those that you consider "high credibility sources." Ironic.
I'm leery of certain expressions here on JW.com because they are used so often that they have practically lost their meaning. One that comes to mind is "hypocrite." Another is "credibility." That's why I asked you what you meant when you said it.
You consider Fred Hall and You Know at the poor end of the credibility scale and yourself, kent, and Norm at the high end. Cool. I have no problem with you thinking that, but if you don't mind, I reserve the right to consider whomever I wish "credible."
I remember kent (jokingly?) suggesting that Emyrose come for a visit to the Norwegian woods to provide a target for him and his friends to go "hunting." He also (repeatedly) posted mean-spirited, denigrating cartoons depicting black people in less than positive ways.
Norm, without ever engaging me even ONE TIME in one-on-one dialog, told me point blank that there was no hope for me, that I had no redeeming qualities. Ginny did the same, but only after she(?) called me a laughingstock for believing a lie she told.
Tina recently started a thread about a wt article and when a poster asked for quotes, another poster had to oblige since she didn't know what the hell she was talking about. But dang, I'm not upset with her, seeings how she's the board's resident blonde, so... there you go. Besides, she is just about the MOST judgmental person here.
I say, "If these are what Larc sees as "highly credible" people, fine." We, you and I, are working with different definitions of the phrase, that's all.
Since you named names, I'll offer my opinion (in no particular order) of those you mentioned that I've "known" long enough to form a reasonable opinion about. Put it with 50 cents and you might be able to buy a cup of coffee:
Imo, Randy has high cred... no, make that very high cred. He has probably helped more people than Ray F, if that's possible. If there were a heaven, he'd have money in the bank, imo.
Waiting is nothing but high class, all the way. Life hasn't been easy for her, but she's been paying attention and has become very, very wise. Patio is following in her footsteps, as far as I can tell but has a ways to go.
I love JT's genuine expressions and insights into life at the Big House. He needs to get with several others and write a book--seriously.
Joel is very near to Waiting's level, imo.
AlanF and I got off on the wrong foot (he misread me and I may have misread him), but I will say that if I had found his writings earlier in my journey of departure from the Society, I'd be far less antagonistic toward him. I would have found his latest thread, where he mimicked a '43 wt article, very thought provoking, chilling, if not downright plausible. As it is, based on where I am now, I found it... well, less than thought provoking, less than chilling, less than plausible, but that's me where I am now. He's a good writer, though, and I think his intentions are good. I just think his 'position' goes to his head sometimes, but I could be wrong about that.
DannyBear and I are well on the way to becoming lifetime friends, so I'll spare you my biased opinion of him.
All of these opinions, except the last, have been written in moist clay, but the clay is hardening. Making concrete judgments about people I have not met or spoken with personally, basing said opinion simply on the words they write, is something I hesitate to do (a practice I wish were more in vogue around here), but it's possible to get to know people even in this medium, if you give them time and they are honest. Well... even if they AREN'T honest, giving them time will allow one to sift out a lot of the nonsense.
Teejay, you are in the middle of these extremes. When you start a thread on a serious subject with an in depth analysis, I will put you in the top category.
You're very funny sometimes, Larc, and I mean that in the best way! My opinion of you rises quite high, then you say something like that and remind me that we're all nothing but measly flesh and blood! I don't know what you mean by "serious thread" but from MY perspective I've done that more than once but you didn't share my view, I noticed. What's serious to one is frivolous to another, I guess, and the world goes round and round.
If by "serious" you mean "JW," "watchtower," "meetings," etc., don't hold your breath. I'd love to be up on the latest mags and mtgs and such, but the last time I went to a wt study with the family, I got so mad at the lies it told... well... I'd had enough. My wife gets her weekly quota of mags, new releases, KMs, etc, and I don't crack any of them. What AlanF and others do is for good purpose and I have no problem with it. It just ain't my bag.
And as far as you putting me "in the top category," you aren't suggesting that I "reach out," are ya, Larc? People waaay more persuasive and waaay more relevant to me than you tried that for AT LEAST 20 years without success. You're going to have to try way harder, my man. You should know that about me by now, or have you not been paying attention?
By the way, your good posts about what you learned from social psych. was very good. I wish you would do more of that.
Interesting. I remember one person responding to that thread. I figured that kind of topic is of interest only to you and me. I have no problem with that. Why beat a dead horse?
peace, Larc.
tj
hello friends,.
in a thread over at witnesses.net entitled "society bracing for law suits" fellow jw's are taking swipes at ray franz.
not too long ago, while i was still under the wt spell i also would have similarily spoken abusively of ray.
Hello, Larc,
I realized a bit late that you had responded here so my time is short at the moment. For now, do me a favor and tell me what you mean by "high credibility." Thanks.
peace,
tj
hello friends,.
in a thread over at witnesses.net entitled "society bracing for law suits" fellow jw's are taking swipes at ray franz.
not too long ago, while i was still under the wt spell i also would have similarily spoken abusively of ray.
Hello, thewiz (cool name, btw),
I guess people rate here too, because, "I'm a friend of Mr. Ray Franz, and you aren't". I didn't know it was used as a status symbol.
You noticed that already, huh. It takes some getting used to -- at least it did for me. I (mistakenly) thought that after kneeling before one set of men, people would have learned something. There's evidence here that I was wrong.
Earlier in this thread I said that to find fault with the Pope is to make oneself one billion instant enemies and, in the exact same way, if you hope to critique Ray (my personal hero, btw) among ex-JWs, you could've picked a more friendly environ than JW.com, because they'll have none of that 'round here. Every group everywhere has its personal icon (deity?). My time here has been educational in several ways, not the least of which is that I have learned that some human beings are prone to fight personal growth with every fiber of their being, clinging with a death-grip to old ways and patterns of thought.
Everyone has an opinion, I just didn't know it had to agree with every body else's. I thought that is the kind of thinking these forums were attempting to shatter; you know to buck the system, to challenge it, to foster open ideas; that everyone has their own voice. And not be a parrot for others.
I was thinking along the same lines when I came here. We, you and I, were thinking wrong for the most part (there ARE exceptions). Most of the posts here reflect a unity (conformity?) not unlike what you'd find in an average kingdom hall. Someone posted not long ago the different sets of people who comprise this forum's eldership, ministerialship, pioneership, governing bodyship, etc. It was funny, but all too true.
Hope you stay, thewiz. Personally, I wouldn't mind a fresh idea every once in a while. I don't think it'd kill me.
peace,
tj
from the july 1, 2003 watchtower article "righteous requirements":.
.. the kingdom of god is the highest government anyone can serve.
how does jehovah issue the call to his people?
Wasn't that a rather shallow note from you, Teejay, surely you recognise that the WTBTS has broken "Caesar's laws" before, and considers God's laws (as defined by their own authority) to be above Caesar's. They only have to say "we mus obey God as ruler rather than men".
You think that was shallow, eh? <hee hee> Just goes to show that I can be shallow with the rest of 'em. But think of this:
In every way that JWs are unconventional (out of the mainstream) they refrain from doing something. Voting? They don't picket or do anything proactive... they just don't vote. Blood transfusions? Same. Military. Same. Christmas and other 'pagan' holidays... same. In none of these (or other) cases do they actually break laws. If you want to think that the average John Q. or Mary Sue JW would risk either life in prison or execution because a magazine article led them to commit murder, go right ahead, buddy. I'm not mad atcha.
You want examples?
tj
it's obvious that the sense of freedom is a dominant.
feeling among most persons here, but it would be .
interesting to hear in what way(s) you feel you .
I'm much more tolerant,appreciate and love the diversity of people and their thoughts.I respect the differences,and preserve the uniqueness of every individual. Diversity is the strength and source of growth.
Wow, tina, that sounds really nice!! "Preserve the uniqueness", huh? Waay cool!! Where did you cut and paste THAT from?
