i have had a conversation this evening with a jw friend i have known since childhood.
he is of the opinion that armageddon will have come and gone within the next 5 years.
are the jws now pinpointing 2020 as the supposed year?
I have had a conversation this evening with a JW friend I have known since childhood. He is of the opinion that Armageddon will have come and gone within the next 5 years. Are the JWs now pinpointing 2020 as the supposed year? Has anyone else heard anything regarding this?
No, she's making it up, probably in a lame attempt at reinforcing her poor choice of remaining a JW.
i know that i am not by any means the first person to take note of this article, but today i finally got around to reading it.
i quickly found the now infamous line "the governing body is neither inspired nor infallible.
" in the interest of fairness, however, i decided to finish the paragraph, which led me to finish the lesson.
That's splitting hairs. To me it's very simple: the WT is full of --it.
my husband and i recently moved back to our hometown so we are back on the radar for the elders.
we have been happily inactive the last few years.
the other day a brother, who was once friends with my husband, and a substitute circuit overseer stopped in my husband's work for a shepherding visit if they still call it that.
So my question is, are they encouraging workplace visits at the meetings? Has common sense completely left their brainwashed minds?
I don't think they are encouraging people to go to people workplaces, but it doesn't surprise me if they did. One way or another I think they are encouraging people to reach out by pretty much any means. They don't respect people's boundaries. They really feel entitled to get into every person's business.
When did it become acceptable to go to one's workplace and engage in a half hour conversation with your tablet in hand discussing scriptures?
It's never been acceptable. Plus I think I should emphasize, it's on us, the ones they pay the visit, to enforce the boundary they are disrespecting. The JWs who know me know way better than even attempting at talking to me, so I don't foresee any event like that happening (for their own sake).
They always want to have the last saying in everything, and they are not going to make people's fading process a graceful one. They always want to be the ones calling the shots. That's the bottom line.
i've been watching louis therouxs documentary about scientology.
one of the thought traps they createn in people is that they make them belive that all good things come from following the doctrines correctly and all bad things come from not doing so.
and in this way it becomes a thought trap where the person is self regulated mentally by trying ever harder to be more indoctrinated.
I agree. In fact, if you look at the way the WT teaches thing, a great portion of is is fear mongering about "the world". Also, note how they depict and the examples and stories they give about people who leave and what "happens to them for leaving" their Jehovah.
I believe that part of the process of getting rid of the JW mindset (at least that was my case) involved a great deal of learning the truth about the world outside the WT bubble, realizing how much BS the WT teaches about how the world is and what people who leave are supposed to become.
to me it seems that there are a growing number of jws who reject a few to most doctrines of jws and yet still believe that they are in "jehovah's organisation.
" i have come across quite a few who for example, reject the 1914 doctrine entirely and yet remain psuedo-jws.. take a look at this page: http://e-jw.org/index.php?threads/the-ultimate-generational-leap-rebuttal.2521/#post-21793.
those are jws who reject 1914 and even the gb.
The problem is that that logic can be applied to any church in existence. They might as well go to a Catholic church whilst rejecting some doctrines and keeping their own beliefs. Wouldn't Jokehova also cleanse the Catholic church (or any other church for that matter) at the time of the end and save his true worshippers? What makes JW land still so special?
Nothing makes them special, not before, not now. Perception is reality to the perceiver. They are convinced that they are the ones and only people with the entire truth about everything and that they are the only ones right about everything, even when they reject some of their own teachings. They believe to be chosen, and as such, in their minds they are convinced that even if they don't get everything right they are still in their Jehovah's favor.
Also, please note that all the nonsense you see them explaining and defending should be place in the right perspective. They are not defending any teaching and doctrine. They are defending their choice of remaining JWs and they do that for fear of losing what the WT gives them to feel the comfort they need.
so i had my first appointment with a counsellor, of course i explained about being a born in jw, mentally leaving, the penalty of doing so and therefore the mental strain of pretending to be someone i'm not.
her response was that she couldn't help me with that because leaving a cult was a "lifestyle choice".
i tried to say to her that its a cult not a religion and how it brain washed me but no.
Do you think it's a lifestyle choice?
To a person who is obviously not qualified to deal with high demand, controlling groups, brainwashing and negative influence, I can see how that answer should suffice. Plus, let's face it, some mental health professionals are quacks. If that's what you got, I'm not sure she knows what she's talking about, nor she seems like she's interested in addressing what you went there for.
In essence I do agree to some degree, but looking at it that way is a very simplistic and dismissive way of looking at what that represents to a person who has been affected by its negative influence. Your counselor didn't show any sensitivity for what that means to you. Leaving the WT organization is not like changing your look. being fashionable is a lifestyle choice; dealing with family shunning you because you don't believe their same crap is not a lifestyle choice.
Looking at it that way doesn't give you the entire story. Change counselors. Look for one who knows about cults and negative influence from high demand controlling groups.
i wish i was kidding, but i have heard this idea suggested lately as a defense of the wts.
this is god's organization, even though it attracts crazy people, and because it attracts crazy people.
"unlettered and ordinary," et cetera.. i don't get it.
@James Mixon:
People that believe in a talking snake, are they crazy?????There are millions of believers that believe it.....A friend of mine Aunt worked in a mental institution, she was attack several times by patients and the last time a lady killed her. A big difference in people that have a mental disorder and folks who have been told a big fat fib.
I think most of us agree with that. However, I'm not sure that it gives us the entire picture. Millions of people used to believe that using leeches in medicine were an excellent idea. Millions of Americans in the 1800's were sold on the idea that wearing butt plugs will prevent diabetes and other health conditions (interesting historical fact that I imagine why no one talks about today). I think that you know where I'm going with this. Millions of fools believing something doesn't make that "something" true.
And yes, there are people who are completely in their right mind with no issues at all, who voluntarily choose to accept and believe the entire Jehovah crap that the WT teaches. Those are not the people we're referring to. Those, in my observation and in my (and based on some of the posts in the thread, others') experience were the minority in their and my congregation.
The vast majority of people who join cults don't do so to learn something, but because they are looking to feel something. And BTW, what they are looking for doesn't necessarily has to relieve them from something negative; it's not always coming from a bad place. When you look at it form that point of view, then you can see how attractive the WT can be to people with issues, ranging from simple, to mild, to severe. Hence, our experiences and comments.
@dubstepped:
The people that we knew in the organization from our birth congregations to where we ended up later in life were NOT known for making wise life decisions. I looked at the disaster of a family that introduced my family to "The Truth", I looked at all of Jehovah's "happy" depressed people around me at the meeting, the people that believed that garlic enemas kept you healthy and that something made from a 9V batter and some wire at Radio Shack cured cancer. I watched people that somehow always had every rare side effect to every medication that they ever took, and people that made poor financial decision after poor financial decision.
Those were exactly my thoughts when I started recovering from my WT-induced depression. I looked at some of the fools in the congregation, and to some of the intelligent ones who were dealing with issues rather than logic and actual knowledge, and the nut cases who were just downright creepy, and started telling myself "This doesn't match such spiritual paradise I've been told all my life about; I'm not sure I want to spend eternal life with these people".
One more thing, dubstepped. Please, please tell me you didn't try the garlic enema thing!
i looked at the 2017 yearbook figures this morning, and it reminded me of something which happened in my former congregation 2 years ago.
it was a tiny foreign language congregation with at most 25-30 publishers.
comes and splits a 30 member congregation into....three.
Anyone who knows basic statistics can see right through their interpretation of their numbers. But then again, they are presented for their crop which are already sold on their nonsense and conditioned to believe any crap they come up with.
what happens if you openly declare you are an aethiest, i don't mean go round forcing my view on everyone , but when pressured to go to the kingdom hall etc you stated you are an aethiest and no longer believe in god , surely you can't be accused of apostasy as you simply don't believe in anything ?
anyone experienced this ?.
What happens if you openly declare you are an aethiest, I don't mean go round forcing my view on everyone , but when pressured to go to the kingdom hall etc you stated you are an aethiest and no longer believe in God , surely you can't be accused of apostasy as you simply don't believe in anything ? Anyone experienced this ?
I believe so, but not necessarily for being an atheist. What I mean is, the WT and the JWs will point at you, will shun you, will attack you if you let them, for as long as you state that you believe anything and everything that is not exactly what/how they say. Atheist, or believer of any else, or non-believer of anything doesn't make any difference. To them that doesn't matter. You are not believing the WT crap. That's enough for them to give you the same treatment.
In fact, just look at some people's stories here on how they have been shunned simply for questioning one or two of their believes while still being active JWs in good standing. So if they go to that extent in their own crop, of course they will treat you like an apostate for not believing in anything. To them there is no difference.
Also, please note that they judge everything based on how they believe things are. Some truly view atheism as if it is some kind of organized entity. I've even heard JWs claiming that people "joined atheism" as if they took atheism studies, baptized as an atheist and go around trying to convert others into atheism or attend some kind of atheist temple. That's how they view the entire world outside, as some kind of unworthy of living enemy. So if you question anything or believe in anything differently from whatever they believe, you are "wordly" and an apostate. End of the story to them.
the 2014 - 2015 jw statistics showed a peak publisher decline of 884 with the average publisher tally showing a gain of 183. .
the 2017 yearbook is now available via jw.org and the statistics for britain show a 2016 peak publisher increase of 630 and an average publisher increase of a paltry 26!.
nothing to shout about on the part of the followers of caiaphas in the britain branch.
What could be contributing to the decline in the British context.....
*Consider the aberrant conduct of many BoE's. Brits like fair play - not bullies.
*Consider the heavy influence to use digital media instead of hardcopy Bible's and hymn books. Scrolling hymns on a large screen karaoke style just isn't British either.
*Consider the silly videos of shadow people - banal and boring.
*Consider the Faithful and Discreet Slave's incursion into kingdom hall's via video. Hardly discreet! Not faithful to anyone but themselves either! If they were really faithful to God's Word they wouldn't be having all those changes in doctrine. No, they're not so much faithful as they are capricious!
I strongly believe that before long, not even the pattern of immigration to Britain will emasculate the decline in JW numbers here. Time will tell!
I completely agree. I'd add that unlike before, the public in general are more aware of the WT as an entity and of the JWs. Their original model was based on the premise that people didn't know who they are at the same time they had to do a lot more work to access reliable information. Today they are widely known, both the JWs and the ex-JWs, and it's a lot easier for people to compare notes and look for information in addition to the things that they claim.
In fact, if you notice, a lot of their growth is occurring in areas where online access is limited, and in places with underdeveloped. It also makes sense for people who are new to a country to feel "welcomed" by that organization and ending up forming part of it.
Thanks for sharing your take on it.
