hardly anyone has an honest opinion about anything of importance that wasnt craftily pre-packaged and handed to them by someone else whose job it is to craft public opinion.
the intention of the media is to present the illusion of impartially informing, all the while pandering to prejudice and ignorance in order to persuade to a particular point of view.
datelines presentation of the watchtowers child abuse issue was a case study in the black art of media propaganda.. from the very beginning of the presentation dateline was intent on giving the public a negative impression of jehovahs witnesses by portraying us all as oddball crackpots whose religion revolves around the doctrine that we dont celebrate birthdays and that all non-believers are possessed by the devil and that we want them all to die.
Wow! You Know is human after all.
Robert (If I may) Thank you for being so honest with larc in your previous response. Your faith in your beliefs (however misguided, IMO) and standing up for your convictions is both honorable and admirable.
I'm glad to see you come off of cloud 9 for once.
iam pleased to report, my jw daughter called me this morning.. needless to say i was thrilled to hear from her.
as many of you know to well, it is a small blessing, but huge when it's coming from an active jw.. i have decided to leave off talking anything jw related, and just enjoy getting caught up on the latest in her life.. there is hope.. danny
''
i was wondering if anyone could comment on the likelyhood of a witness elder considering physical evidence of molestation.
so far all i am hearing about is the 2+ witness rule and i would like further clarification.. if sally-sue's parents walked up to elder marvin and said: 'hey!
brother phaux raped my sally!
Everyone:
:: To even suggest, even jokingly that a child could be examined by an elder for physical evidence is to suggest abuse on top of the original abuse.
Although I did not start this thread as a joke, I would like to apologize to any and all parents and other sensitive individuals if by starting this thread I have offended.
i'm still thinking this through, so i invite differing perspectives from the board members.. if bill bowen's mission is to expose the wt policy on molestation, and hence by this exposure ellicit a favourable change to their paradigm, wouldnt he as a result be inadvertently " cleansing " the wt, making it " better " ?.
this obviously being a fruitage of his works, and the fact that he has the unequivocal support of most xjw's ( like you fine folk ) wouldnt that mean that you guys would then be a part of that aforementioned work, that of improving the wt image and policy.. therefore the question is cloaked by a seeming contradiction in the form of a paradox, namely..... by supporting billy boy are you destroying the wt image or refurbing it ?.
does god really work in such a mysterious way ?
Hey JANH.
It's good to see you posting again. You may have posted elsewhere here, but this is the first post I've seen.
i was wondering if anyone could comment on the likelyhood of a witness elder considering physical evidence of molestation.
so far all i am hearing about is the 2+ witness rule and i would like further clarification.. if sally-sue's parents walked up to elder marvin and said: 'hey!
brother phaux raped my sally!
Matrix:
: Why do you lower yourself to the point of insult me? :
Because you 'lower yourself' to fraternize with apostates. It's human nature to oppose one another. With your head in the clouds, you didn't forget that you are human did you?
: You said "If Sally-Sue's parents walked up to Elder Marvin and said: 'Hey! Brother Phaux raped my Sally! Here, look at her! HER ANUS IS BRUISED!!!' What would the Elder do?"
I only said that would not be appropiate. What is the elder going to say? "O.k., honey drop your skirt and panties so I can examine your anus" I mean that's just inappropiate. Now if the parents say that the Anus is bruised, then of course the elder should believe them, why would they lie? They should confront the abuser with the physcial evidence and pressure him to confess. :
An unfortunate miscommunication. I thought you were referring to your idea of taking the girl to the doctor. Perhaps you should be more clear next time on just exactly what you mean.
many on this forum criticize elders as being incompetent.
i've know a few myself, but you must agree that there are also very good elders also.. well, here is a case and i would like to know what you would do if you were an elder.. a fourteen (14) year old male has sex with a twelve (12) year old female.
the female confesses to her parents and the parents report to the elders.
Matrix:
:: Your #5 is highly specious. Every witness (including elders) I have ever talked to say "We don't need therapists or psychologists, we have God's word to help us through the tough times!" ::
: This is true, I think they call that the "old school". I think younger elders now adays have a different view and appreciate the job that experienced counselors do. :
"old school"? Is that anything like "new light"? Or perhaps I am hearing "bull shit"?
:: By the way Matrix, you forgot to warn the girl not to tell anyone else in the congregation about that incident and to leave it in Jehovahs hands because he would take care of it in his own due time. ::
: Well in Erica's case it wouldn't matter if she talked to others in the congregation about it since she was living in California and the abuser was from Washington (?I think I remember she said Washington)
I think it's up to the victim if she wants to talk to other about it or not. Most of the time, I don't think they do since they feel embarrased about what happened and it hurts them to talk about it with others. :
A noble gesture that may have you removed as an elder for reasons another poster earlier has stated. Have you forgotten the usefulness of 'needs talks'? Do you not trust in the Theocratic Order?
: I do agree with you that I would have told her that Jehovah will take care of it in due time, but some steps can be taken in the meanwhile. Informing the police of the crime is one of them. :
That is, if you are in a reporting state. If you are not in a reporting state, you would not tell the cops about the crime committed, and you know it.
hardly anyone has an honest opinion about anything of importance that wasnt craftily pre-packaged and handed to them by someone else whose job it is to craft public opinion.
the intention of the media is to present the illusion of impartially informing, all the while pandering to prejudice and ignorance in order to persuade to a particular point of view.
datelines presentation of the watchtowers child abuse issue was a case study in the black art of media propaganda.. from the very beginning of the presentation dateline was intent on giving the public a negative impression of jehovahs witnesses by portraying us all as oddball crackpots whose religion revolves around the doctrine that we dont celebrate birthdays and that all non-believers are possessed by the devil and that we want them all to die.
:: You can't fool me Fraudbacker
Nope. Nobody can fool You Know. He's too busy fooling himself.
i was wondering if anyone could comment on the likelyhood of a witness elder considering physical evidence of molestation.
so far all i am hearing about is the 2+ witness rule and i would like further clarification.. if sally-sue's parents walked up to elder marvin and said: 'hey!
brother phaux raped my sally!
:: With regards to your example, we have to remember that the child that was abused has gone through enough. Why would you subject her to so much humiliation as you recommend? It's better for a doctor to examine her, as I mentioned before.
What humiliation would that be dipmuffin? How is your humiliation brought on by the advice to contact social services by the society (you hope) initiated by an elder any different than a social services initiated by the elder on advice from the police? To the child it's the same humiliation, you dipmuffin.
Your primary concern is not spreading the word that a witness child was raped by another witness. That is the ONLY reason you would call a service department with an agenda that goes beyond the best interests of the victim.
We must remember that when justice is served, dipmuffin, it's not humiliation. It's VINDICATION.
It's a nice idea though. Too bad it would be 'inappropriate'.
many on this forum criticize elders as being incompetent.
i've know a few myself, but you must agree that there are also very good elders also.. well, here is a case and i would like to know what you would do if you were an elder.. a fourteen (14) year old male has sex with a twelve (12) year old female.
the female confesses to her parents and the parents report to the elders.
And here is what TheMatrix would have done had it been a non-reporting state...
1. I would have hugged her.
2. I would pray with her so that Jehovah can give her peace of mind.
3. I would contact the congregation where the abuser attends, so that they can take care of it judicially. (The other congregation would probably not do anything about it either because the incident happened in the past and the brother is trying to change for the better and it's best to let things be, that is, if he even admits to committing the crime).
4. I would have organized regular shepherding visits for her and her family to comfort them and pray with them.
Your #5 is highly specious. Every witness (including elders) I have ever talked to say "We don't need therapists or psychologists, we have God's word to help us through the tough times!"
By the way Matrix, you forgot to warn the girl not to tell anyone else in the congregation about that incident and to leave it in Jehovahs hands because he would take care of it in his own due time.
i was wondering if anyone could comment on the likelyhood of a witness elder considering physical evidence of molestation.
so far all i am hearing about is the 2+ witness rule and i would like further clarification.. if sally-sue's parents walked up to elder marvin and said: 'hey!
brother phaux raped my sally!
Sorry Tinkerbell, I did not mean to bring back bad memories.
