I believe whatever the context and the overall theme of the Bible and holy spirit makes clear.
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113
Luke 23:43 the NWT
by Ade inluke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.
nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.
now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.
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Is the WT right that the Lamb's marriage is after Armageddon?
by Kosonen inthe wt org claims that the lamb's marriage will happen after armageddon, despite the fact that revelation 19 very clearly says that the lamb's marriage happens after the destruction of babylon the great.
and that after the lamb's marriage he with heavenly armies will go to destroy the wicked.. the wt claims that the order of events in revelation 19 is not really in that order referring to psalm 45. but i can't find in psalm 45 any explicit contradiction to revelation 19. .
paragraph 10 in the following article shows the wt org's view point:.
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EasyPrompt
"But reject empty speeches that violate what is holy, for they will lead to more and more ungodliness, and their word will spread like gangrene. Hy·me·naeʹus and Phi·leʹtus are among them. These men have deviated from the truth, saying that the resurrection has already occurred, and they are subverting the faith of some."
There were some in the first century that erroneously taught the resurrection of the anointed had already occurred. These men deviated from truth and subverted the faith of others. The GB/FDS have also deviated from the truth by saying the anointed are already being resurrected since 1914 or 1918 or whatever.
Paul said, when talking of the anointed: "Look! I tell you a sacred secret: We will not all fall asleep in death, but we will all be changed, in a moment, in the blink of an eye, during the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised up incorruptible, and we will be changed."
He tells the order: During the time of the last trumpet (1) the dead anointed will be resurrected and (2) the other anointed will be changed.
These events are not separated by decades of years. They happen together, one right after the other.
When is the last trumpet? Revelation shows the trumpets are sounded during the great tribulation. That hasn't happened yet. The trumpets were not in 1914. None of the 144,000 anointed have been resurrected yet.
The bride all goes to heaven at the same time. The anointed do not go piecemeal. The marriage takes place when the bridegroom brings the bride home and the kingdom is complete. All of the bride, meaning all 144,000. Here is what the scriptures say:
"For this is what we tell you by Jehovah’s word, that we the living who survive to the presence of the Lord will in no way precede those who have fallen asleep in death; because the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a commanding call, with an archangel’s voice and with God’s trumpet, and those who are dead in union with Christ will rise first. Afterward we the living who are surviving will, together with them, be caught away in clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and thus we will always be with the Lord."
"Together With Them". When it is time for the marriage to take place, Jesus comes and wakes up the dead anointed by resurrecting them. Then the living anointed are changed, and All Together they go into the kingdom arrangement. (Kind of like the Beatles song, "All Together Now" haha.)
When Jesus was resurrected, many people on earth saw him for many days before he went to heaven. The resurrection of the anointed will be the same way. That is why people on earth will be in shock when this event takes place during the latter part of the great tribulation. It will not be a hidden, invisible action. There were witnesses when Jesus went up to heaven in the clouds. It will be the same when the anointed are changed.
Just as Hymenaeus and Alexander taught lies about the resurrection in the first century, so today. The governing body is teaching that the anointed resurrection already happened, and this is subverting the faith of some. The Bible is clear. The anointed are not resurrected until after Jesus becomes king. He didn't become king in 1914. When the anointed are resurrected, there will be witnesses on earth to the event, just like there were many witnesses when Jesus was resurrected. He was resurrected as a spirit creature, but he materialized a human body. The anointed resurrection will be the same way.
"If we have become united with him in the likeness of his death, we will certainly also be united with him in the likeness of his resurrection."
The "marriage" of Adam and Eve took place when Jehovah brought them together. There was no fancy formal ceremony. The "marriage of the Lamb" means when all the 144,000 are resurrected and with Jesus and then the battle of Armageddon begins.
A newborn baby doesn't have to ask how to breathe. In an instant, the heart valve switches gears and the lungs take in oxygen instead of getting it through the umbilical cord. It's a miracle. Jehovah knows how to do miracles. The 144,000 will not have to be trained last minute or ask how to fight bad guys at Armageddon and how to save the ones they love. They will already know how to follow the direction of the holy spirit, and they will be motivated to protect their loved ones, whoever Jesus says to save.
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113
Luke 23:43 the NWT
by Ade inluke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.
nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.
now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.
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EasyPrompt
A couple of decades.
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30
Were can you find Jesus' witnesses?
by Kosonen inin the revelation book it talks about jesus' witnesses.
were are true witnesses of jesus, not those who teach that jesus is the almighty god, but really true witnesses of jesus.. this is what the revelation book ways about witnesses of jesus:.
19:10 ..... brothers who have the work of witnessing concerning jesus.
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Hi, Kosonen!
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Did Jesus COME with the clouds of heaven in 1914?
by Fisherman intake for example revelation 21: 10. .
“….and he showed me the holy city jerusalem coming down out of heaven from god.
here john sees something happening, action.
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EasyPrompt
In Matthew 24 and Mark 13 and Luke 21, Jesus is describing events that will take place during the great tribulation.
Some of the things that take place during the great tribulation are going to be really scary and some people might think that no one with faith will survive.
But Jesus says, "Truly I say to you that this generation will by no means pass away until all these things happen," meaning that faithful Christians who are alive when the great tribulation starts would survive the great tribulation even though it's scary and make it to the time at the end of the tribulation when Jesus would come on the clouds and everybody would see him.
When Jesus went up into the clouds, people saw him. People will see him again when he gets here in Kingdom power to fix everything.
The word "generation" has nothing to do with calculating the times and seasons regarding the day and the hour the Kingdom would begin. It also has nothing to do with 1914. Jesus said not to even try to calculate when he would begin ruling in Kingdom power. The phrase that sometimes gets translated "the times of the Gentiles" would be better translated "appointed times of the nations" because another expression for the great tribulation is the appointed times of the nations. Daniel and Revelation show that that great tribulation will be 3 1/2 years long. It will be the time the UN destroys all religious institutions and oppresses people of faith to an extreme degree. The great tribulation is "the appointed times of the nations" to trample true Christians.
Jesus didn't come into Kingdom power in 1914. If that date could have been calculated from the scriptures, then he himself would have known it back when he walked the earth. Instead he said, no man knows the day or the hour the Kingdom would begin, not even him, only the Father.
Just like Jannes and Jambres seemed to do "miracles" that "came true" but they were really fakers and Satan just did tricks, so in a similar way when Russell and the Miller-type people said "1914!" because of numerology-pyramidology-whatever, Satan got in there and did his tricks again to make it seem like that "prophecy" of Russell came true. The book of Job shows the Devil can cause problems like plague-type stuff. The wicked one is called "the ruler of the world" and if he wants to set up a world war like WWI or WWII, certainly he is able. We can all see that Russell and many others from the borg fit the descriptions in 2 Timothy 3:1-5 about those who have a form of godly devotion and prove false to its power. The verses go on to say: "Now in the way that Janʹnes and Jamʹbres opposed Moses, so these also go on opposing the truth. Such men are completely corrupted in mind, disapproved as regards the faith. Nevertheless, they will make no further progress, for their folly will be very plain to all, as it was with those two men."
Second Thessalonians 2:9-12 says "But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness."
It's not surprising the "lawless ones" would have "powerful work and lying signs." How many people were misled by the 1914 thing? A lot.
But now "their folly" is "very plain to all". It's going to be a lot "plainer to all" when Jehovah's Witnesses as an institution are attacked by the nations at the beginning of the great tribulation. Jehovah will make it plain to everybody that those GB/FDS guys are disapproved.
Jesus didn't take the throne in 1914, but the prophecy in Daniel 11 and 12 shows he will take the throne very soon. When Jesus takes the throne in heaven, the first thing he will do is cast the Devil out of heaven. The Devil will get the UN all riled up to destroy religious people. God will allow all the religious institutions to be destroyed. Individuals will survive, and Jesus will make sure the Christian congregation he founded is refined and restored. People out of all denominations who have the right heart will be gathered together, and then a great crowd of right-hearted people who don't know God will also be gathered, just like a great crowd of Egyptians and others were gathered when it was time to leave Egypt. It's going to be a long 3 1/2 years that the UN will rule. We will need a lot of love for each other. There is so much work to do during the days ahead. Thank God it's Jesus and the angels who will be taking the lead in the congregation instead of any imperfect humans!
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113
Luke 23:43 the NWT
by Ade inluke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.
nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.
now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.
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EasyPrompt
Hi, Sea Breeze...
That's cool that you serve at a Christian Academy! I think it's fun to help kids learn about God. Growing up pretty much atheist, I found education disjointed and random at times. Incorporating our Creator into the subject matter ties everything together and explains why we find patterns in creation, why scientists can predict elements on the periodic table, etc... I am thankful that there are people like you willing to take a stand for including information about God in education in a world that so often tends to discard the wisdom of the Bible.
Thank you for sharing your ideas with me about Jesus.
Although I do agree with you sometimes on other threads 🙂, I don't agree with you in this case, and I will explain why...
(1) That spirit persons can materialize a body is evidenced many times in the Bible, by both wicked and good angels, for instance.
(2) Paul said of those humans who will be going to heaven "we shall all be changed" and that a physical human body cannot go to heaven.
(3) When Jesus was resurrected, at first his friends did not recognize him, because he materialized a body that looked different.
Some scientists say that certain cells in the body are replaced every seven years. I don't know how accurate that estimate is, but surely since humans are designed to live forever, at some point there will be different cells in place than the originals, and yet the same person with the same memories and the same personality is there. It is possible to have the same person in a physically different body.
When Jesus healed the man who was born blind, that man had never had healthy eyes. The cells Jesus miraculously created weren't "the same" cells the man had before. They were new.
When Jesus healed the man with the withered hand, the cells Jesus created weren't "the same" cells the man had in a formerly healthy hand. That man's hand had been withered for a long time. It wasn't like the muscles had just withered a couple days prior.
When Jehovah healed the wombs of different women, like Rachel and Sarah and Hannah, it wasn't like he was giving them back something they lost. They had never been able to conceive. Jehovah gave them something new.
And the biggest evidence, Jesus had a life in heaven before he came to earth. Jesus had a spirit body in heaven before he was a man. The Bible says that spirit creatures are higher than humans as far as a life form goes. If it is possible for God to put such a higher life form into a human body once, than certainly it is possible for God to do it again with a different body.
The fact that God gave Jesus a different body does not negate the ransom. For the ransom to work, that other body had to be given up forever. Instead of having the option to father his own kids in that body, Jesus gave it up to inherit all Adam's kids through adoption. Jesus was willing to make the trade.
But giving up that body doesn't mean Jesus can't hang out on earth. To the contrary, not only Jesus but also Jehovah will hang out here.
"Therefore, in response Jesus said to them: “Most truly I say to you, the Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he sees the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son does also in like manner. For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, so that you may marvel." (John 5:19,20)
"For I well know that my redeemer is alive;
He will come later and rise up over the earth.
After my skin has thus been destroyed,
While yet in my flesh, I will see God,
Whom I will see for myself,
Whom my own eyes will see, not someone else’s."
(Job 19:25-27)
Job prophesied about Jesus, the Redeemer, who was alive in heaven and who was coming.
Job also prophesied about Jehovah God coming to the earth again, just like in Eden, when Jehovah walked every day with His kids in the garden in the breezy part of the day.
"Truly I tell you today, you will be with me in Paradise."
Jesus said it. Jehovah will be there too.
"And the name of the city from that day on will be Jehovah Is There."
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A SHADOW to NONE
by Terry inbe a shadow to nonethis world’s gone all wobbly and doubly unshackledwe’re tackled by circumstance, brought to our kneesfinancial hardship, a test of all friendshipcrash and corruption; it’s death and diseasewho is our neighbor and where are our leaders?the lord of the flies may arise to the thronethough life packs a wallop a dollop of courageand brotherhood binds us; we’re not here alone+++out of the shadow we stand in the sunbackbone and muscle: we’re not yet undonebring on apocalypse you won’t see us runand we’ll be a shadow to noneno, we’ll be a shadow to none+++ buzzards and bastards, they circle disasters rats skitter scatter the old sinking shipit’s backbone bravado with faith as our mottothat binds us, reminds us: take aim, let her ripgoodness and decency stumbled and crumbledgreed is the creed of malevolent mennow is the time to remind one anotheryou are my brother, yes you are my friend+++out of the shadow we stand in the sunbackbone and muscle we’re not yet undonebring on apocalypse you won’t see us runand we'll be a shadow to noneno - we'll be a shadow to nonemy brother, we’re not yet undone+++a song i haven't bothered to finish :)
john farnham might be a good choice for singer
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113
Luke 23:43 the NWT
by Ade inluke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.
nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.
now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.
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EasyPrompt
Yeah, the WT gets a lot backwards.
Jesus already showed that he can materialize a body. He said he'd eat and drink in the Kingdom. You don't eat and drink in heaven. Jesus will walk around on the earth. His abode will be heaven, but just because you live somewhere doesn't mean you can't visit somewhere else.
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A Press Conference of Hate: False Accusations of Sexual Abuse Against the Jehovah’s Witnesses 7~24~23
by Tahoe in.
https://bitterwinter.org/a-press-conference-of-hate-false-accusations-of-sexual-abuse-against-the-jehovahs-witnesses/.
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EasyPrompt
@Vienne, I don't need your sympathy and I didn't ask for it, but I do thank you for making the expression.
As regards Massimo and "payment"...There are different forms of "payment" besides cash.
It is possible to pay attention.
It is also possible to pay honor.
The Devil wasn't asking for cash from Jesus. He was asking for a different kind of payment.
Proverbs 8:13 says "The fear of Jehovah means the hating of bad. I hate self-exaltation and pride and the evil way and perverse speech."
Should exaltation and esteemful attention and honor be paid to someone who loves what is bad? Why are the GB/FDS exalting a person who is lying and helping them hide abuse?
The answer is obvious.
"Woe to those who say that good is bad and bad is good,
Those who substitute darkness for light and light for darkness,
Those who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!
Woe to those wise in their own eyes
And discreet in their own sight!
...Those who acquit the wicked for a bribe
And who deny justice to the righteous!
...Because they rejected the law of Jehovah of armies
And disrespected the word of the Holy One of Israel.
That is why the anger of Jehovah burns against his people,
And he will stretch out his hand against them and strike them.
...In view of all this, his anger has not turned back,
But his hand is still stretched out to strike.
He has raised up a signal to a distant nation;
He has whistled for them to come from the ends of the earth;
And look! they are coming very swiftly." (Isaiah chapter 5)
The GB/FDs reject Jehovah. Jehovah will reject them.
Jehovah hasn't changed. He's used nations before to discipline people who claimed to be "His Name People" but acted horridly. Jehovah's Witnesses will not be exempted from the attack on religious institutions. To the contrary, they will be the first religious institution removed/dismantled/stripped by the UN, that everyone may know the GB/FDS wasn't representing Jehovah's will.
"You should start from my sanctuary.” So they started with the elders who were in front of the house." (Ezekiel 9:6)
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Where Does Watchtower Doctrine Contradict Scripture?
by Vanderhoven7 inhere are some areas that i have found:.
not only is watchtower eschatology offbase, which is not critical, but so is watchtower soteriology … which is critical.
the bible says not to put trust in men who cannot save.
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EasyPrompt
🙂💖