per request from petrw🙂, some revelation stuff.... .
the four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once jesus is enthroned in heaven.. .
the winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.. .
Easy Prompt: "I get my education from Jesus."
PetrW: "start a discussion thread dealing with Revelation and put your views out there"
PetrW: "Ugh, enough information."
Revelation 1:17 "When I saw him, I fell as dead at his feet."
Lol😆. Information overload can be overwhelming! Sorry if it was too much at once, PetrW.🙂🫶I hope you had a good walk with your doggy earlier.🐾☺️💖
per request from petrw🙂, some revelation stuff.... .
the four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once jesus is enthroned in heaven.. .
the winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.. .
Daniel chapter 2 march of world powers culminates with UN as described at 2:41,41 "iron mixed with soft clay" like governments and NGOs.
Daniel chapter 7 march of world powers ten horns part, other horn before which three fell (US/UK/UN led treaties after WWs humiliated former Roman empire kingdoms of Austro-Hungary, Italy, Germany), then in verse 21 UN makes war on holy ones during great tribulation. Also described at Daniel 7:25 as "He will speak words against the Most High, and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time."
Daniel chapter 8 march of world powers small horn UN attack on religious institutions described verses 10-14: "It grew so great that it reached all the way to the army of the heavens, and it caused some of the army and some of the stars to fall to the earth, and it trampled them down. It exalted itself even against the Prince of the army, and from him the constant feature was taken away, and the established place of his sanctuary was thrown down. And an army was given over, together with the constant feature, because of transgression; and it kept throwing truth to the earth, and it acted and had success. And I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one speaking: “How long will the vision of the constant feature and of the transgression causing desolation continue, to make both the holy place and the army things to trample on?” So he said to me: “Until 2,300 evenings and mornings; and the holy place will certainly be restored to its right condition.”
(Genesis shows "an evening, a morning, one day"...2,300 evenings and mornings is 1,150 evenings and 1,150 mornings, same is 1,150 days which fits within the 3 1/2 year tribulation.)
Daniel 8 again says at verse 19 "Here I am causing you to know what will happen in the final part of the denunciation, because it is for the appointed time of the end." The UN leader is described at 8:23-25 "“And in the final part of their kingdom, as the transgressors act to a completion, a fierce-looking king who understands ambiguous sayings will stand up. His power will become great, but not through his own power. He will bring ruin in an extraordinary way, and he will be successful and act effectively. He will bring mighty ones to ruin, also the people made up of the holy ones. And by his cunning he will use deception to succeed; and in his heart he will exalt himself; and during a time of security he will bring many to ruin. He will even stand up against the Prince of princes, but he will be broken without human hand."
Daniel chapter 12 is set "in the time of the end" (verse 4.) Verses 6,7 state "How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?” Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens and swore by the One who is alive forever: “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time. As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things will come to their finish.”"
Jesus talked about the appointed times of the nations, which was referring to the attack by the governments of the nations on religious institutions during the great tribulation. "And they will fall by the edge of the sword and be led captive into all the nations; and Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations until the appointed times of the nations are fulfilled." (Luke 21:24)
The progression of world powers in Daniel coincides with the descriptions of the US/UK breathing life into the UN in Revelation chapter 13. The time period of 3 1/2 years in Daniel also coincide with the 3 1/2 years in Revelation where the Devil comes down and causes woe on the earth.
per request from petrw🙂, some revelation stuff.... .
the four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once jesus is enthroned in heaven.. .
the winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.. .
The end of Daniel chapter 11 and beginning of Daniel chapter 12 identifies the timing of when the tribulation/plagues of Revelation begin to take place.
"But reports out of the east and out of the north will disturb him, and he will go out in a great rage to annihilate and to devote many to destruction. And he will plant his royal tents between the grand sea and the holy mountain of Decoration; and he will come all the way to his end, and there will be no helper for him. During that time Miʹcha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of your people. And there will occur a time of distress such as has not occurred since there came to be a nation until that time."
The rest of Daniel chapter 12 includes..."It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time. As soon as the dashing to pieces of the power of the holy people comes to an end, all these things will come to their finish." Three and a half years.
And..."“And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days."
The parallel visions of the march of certain world powers in Daniel chapters 2, 7, and 8 show that we are coming to the time discussed in Daniel chapter 11/12.
It is during the time we are in right now that Jesus will take the throne in heaven. We don't know the day or the hour, but when it happens the Devil will be cast down, the UN riled up, religious institutions attacked, 3 1/2 years of tribulation, etc.
per request from petrw🙂, some revelation stuff.... .
the four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once jesus is enthroned in heaven.. .
the winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.. .
Revelation 19:11-16 makes clear that Jesus is the same as the rider of the white horse, the first of the "four horsemen".
"I saw heaven opened, and look! a white horse. And the one seated on it is called Faithful and True, and he judges and carries on war in righteousness. His eyes are a fiery flame, and on his head are many diadems. He has a name written that no one knows but he himself, and he is clothed with an outer garment stained with blood, and he is called by the name The Word of God. Also, the armies in heaven were following him on white horses, and they were clothed in white, clean, fine linen. And out of his mouth protrudes a sharp, long sword with which to strike the nations, and he will shepherd them with a rod of iron. Moreover, he treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God the Almighty. On his outer garment, yes, on his thigh, he has a name written, King of kings and Lord of lords."
Zechariah chapter one shows that the imagery of the four horsemen symbolized God's judgment against those who claimed to represent Him.
The ride of the four horsemen in Revelation is just one of several images that depicts the destruction of religious institutions, which doesn't begin until after Jesus is enthroned in heaven and kicks the Devil down.
Isaiah speaks of hail, flood, etc figuratively, as here in Isaiah 28:2
"Look! Jehovah has someone strong and mighty.
Like a thundering hailstorm, a destructive windstorm,
Like a thunderstorm of powerful floodwaters,
He will forcefully hurl it down to the earth."
...and again at Isaiah 28:17...
"And I will make justice the measuring line
And righteousness the leveling tool.
The hail will sweep away the refuge of lies,
And the waters will flood out the hiding place."
These judgments were against the religious people who claimed to be representing the Most High God.
In context in that same chapter, Isaiah prophetically refers to Jesus as our sure foundation during that time of upcoming tribulation.
"Therefore this is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: “Here I am laying as a foundation in Zion a tested stone,
The precious cornerstone of a sure foundation.
No one exercising faith will panic.""
Verse 21 says: "For Jehovah will rise up as at Mount Pe·raʹzim;
He will rouse himself as in the valley near Gibʹe·on,
That he may do his deed—his strange deed—
And that he may carry out his work—his unusual work."
The plagues of Revelation are not literal. The attack on religious institutions will be like figurative earthquakes for many people.
per request from petrw🙂, some revelation stuff.... .
the four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once jesus is enthroned in heaven.. .
the winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.. .
...(sorry, double posted, didn't post at first!)
per request from petrw🙂, some revelation stuff.... .
the four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once jesus is enthroned in heaven.. .
the winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.. .
...
per request from petrw🙂, some revelation stuff.... .
the four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once jesus is enthroned in heaven.. .
the winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.. .
...
per request from petrw🙂, some revelation stuff.... .
the four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once jesus is enthroned in heaven.. .
the winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.. .
PetrW: "One of the hardest questions I find is the connection between the book of Daniel and Revelation...etc. etc. These questions are many and many."
The "time, times and half a time" and the "42 months" and "1,290" and "1,260" and are all within the time of the great tribulation, which is 3 1/2 years.
Daniel, Revelation, and the gospels show that "the appointed times of the nations" are the 3 1/2 years during the great tribulation.
The feet of the Daniel chapter 2 dream image is the same as the UN depicted in Revelation, which comes out of the US/UK. The Daniel visions in chapter 7,8, and 11/12 also depict this outgrowth from a slightly different perspective.
It is during the rule of the UN for 3 1/2 years that all religious institutions will be attacked and destroyed.
Some other stuff...
The great crowd that survives Armageddon includes people who today are not necessarily religious, just like a great crowd of non-Israelites went out of Egypt with the Jews after the Egyptian religion was destroyed.
There are no "new scrolls" like the GB teaches. The "scrolls" in that chapter of Revelation are just talking about what people do later during the 1000 year reign.
per request from petrw🙂, some revelation stuff.... .
the four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once jesus is enthroned in heaven.. .
the winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.. .
Per request from PetrW🙂, some Revelation stuff...
The four horsemen didn't start in 1914 or earlier- the timing is once Jesus is enthroned in heaven.
The four angels holding back the winds of destruction are said to be at Euphrates, which was by Babylon. Babylon/religion. The winds of destruction are on the religious institutions.
The plagues in ancient Egypt were on religious fakers, to expose them. The plagues in Elijah's day exposed religious fakers. The plagues in Revelation expose religious fakers.
The plagues are not literal. They are figurative. Other parts of the Bible show that "hail" (like in Isaiah) can mean exposing lies. "Locusts" can mean other nations coming to take your stuff.
When the Watchtower (and other religious institutions) are torn down by governments taking away the real estate/financial holdings/etc, it will be clear Jesus has been enthroned in heaven and is figuratively "riding the white horse".
The congregations of Revelation represent all groups who claim to be Christian. They've all got issues. When Jesus is enthroned, he'll clean things up and get rid of the divisions.
The "angels" of Revelation chapter 1 are actually "angels", not "elders".
Spirit creatures can materialize. In the latter part of Revelation when it talks about the New Jerusalem coming down out of heaven and God's tent with mankind, that implies those in the kingdom government and Jesus and Jehovah himself will visibly and individually interact with those on earth, not just from a distance, just like in Eden God walked with Adam every day in the breezy part of the day.
"He will wipe every tear out of their eyes."
God is not partial. The whole universal family will get to hang out.
na28: ὧν οἱ πατέρες καὶ ἐξ ὧν ὁ χριστὸς τὸ κατὰ σάρκα, ὁ ὢν ἐπὶ πάντων θεὸς εὐλογητὸς εἰς τοὺς αἰῶνας, ἀμήν.. na28 transliterated: hō̃n hoi patéres kaì ex hō̃n ho khristòs tò katà sárka, ho ṑn epì pántōn theòs eulogētòs eis toùs aiō̃nas, amḗn.. kit: .
nwt: to them the forefathers belong, and from them the christ descended according to the flesh.
god, who is over all, be praised forever.
Hi PetrW!🙂 That sounds like fun.☺️ I can start the thread now if you want, but I might not be able to respond until later.
