Posts by EasyPrompt

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

EasyPrompt

RaymondFrantz, you are right about no person going to heaven before Christ and that Paradise is not in heaven, but regarding the Tartarus thing...

...if Tartarus is a literal physical place under the ground, then where under the ground is it? Like on a map, where? And if the demons are supposedly locked up there, why does the Bible show they are still harassing some people who are not also under the ground, including harassing some persons in heaven such as Jehovah and Jesus and the faithful angels, as is clear in Job and Revelation? If the demons were locked up in a literal physical underground chamber back during the days of Noah, then how did they get out to torture Job? How did Satan get out to heaven to taunt God in Job's day, and to tempt Jesus in the first century? And how did the demons get out and possess all those people in the days Jesus cast demons out of people in the first century? And if the demons are supposedly locked up in a physical place under the ground, why does Revelation say that after Jesus takes the throne in heaven he casts them down to earth? If they're already locked up in a physical place, how is it that they are set free and then cast down again?

If Tartarus is a literal physical place, then you must think Sheol is also a literal physical place? So then where is Sheol literally and physically? Also underground in a chamber somewhere? What about Gehenna? Do you think that is also a physical literal location? And how about the Mountain of Megiddo spoken of in Revelation? Is that a physical literal place? There was a physical Megiddo, but is "Megiddo" always a physical location regardless of how the Bible writer uses the word? And what about Zion spoken of in the Bible? Of course sometimes Zion is a literal place, like in ancient Jerusalem, but in Revelation or places in Isaiah, do you always take it to be a literal earthly physical location even if the context deems otherwise?

If some Jews or Greeks in the first century believed a myth about Tartarus it is of no consequence to me. There were a lot of people on the earth back then who believed untruths, just like today. The amount of time that goes by doesn't change untruth into truth. Those people who believed Tartarus is some literal physical place were wrong. Those people died. God doesn't die. God is True. His Word is true, and that truth doesn't change regardless of how much time goes by. His Word makes clear that Tartarus is not a literal physical place. The Bible was clear back when it was written on matters regarding death and life and it's still clear. "All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight..."

You can believe what you want, you can read and believe "The Harrowing of Hell" if you want, but you'll do better sticking with what God had recorded in Ecclesiastes 12:11,12...

"The words of the wise are like oxgoads, and their collected sayings are like firmly embedded nails; they have been given from one shepherd. As for anything besides these, my son, be warned: To the making of many books there is no end, and much devotion to them is wearisome to the flesh."

15

J.W org and Noah's Flood

by Phizzy in

i remember when i was "in" the org.

had a ridiculous public talk outline defending the genesis flood myth.. do they have a current one doing that ?.

EasyPrompt

I remember when people believed in the sci-fi myths of Richard Dawkins/Charles Darwin/Stephen Gould/Sigmund Freud/Friedrich Nietzsche/etc and other members of the "governing body" of evolutionary-atheistic-make-believe mythology literature just because they read it in a bunch of publications and heard other "smart-sounding" individuals regurgitate it, lol!!!🤣🤣🤣

(Oh, wait - that's still going on today! Also there are people who believe the earth is flat, and that Santa Claus really exists, and that if you put enough letters after your name and use big words you must be more intelligent...🙄🤪)

Did you know that if you live long enough you'll mutate? Yeah, just wait and see!

Did you know that 356,789,012,345 million bazillion years ago dogs ruled the universe and then evolved into fleas and then died off when a meteorite hit? Yeah, I'm writing a book on it, and I'm an expert. What do you mean, where's the evidence? You can't tell that there was a meteorite? You can't check my dates? What do you mean, where are my witnesses? I don't need witnesses. I'm a "scientist!" Won't you take my word for it? I have fancy dating techniques, so it must be the truth, because I never lie and I never make mistakes. Now, won't you buy my book? It's got the latest theory!

🤣🤣🤣

(I think it's funny how some people get out of one cult and then embrace the lies and propaganda of another - as if the "science" community isn't full of people who use the same shady techniques as the WTBT$.)

The "science community" was my first "WTBT$". The hoodwinking techniques are the same. Publish or perish. Flood the followers with enough "leaven" and repeat the "mantra" enough that no one dares question it and banish/shun anyone who won't "believe" the evolutionary/atheistic doctrine. Same trap in different dressing. Same package in a different wrap. Following fakers who make stuff up.

Not everything the science community teaches is wrong, just like not everything the WTBT$ teaches is wrong.

Real science and the Bible show the Flood was real. Richard Dawkins writes sci-fi fantasy because it sells better than non-fiction. "$cience"

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

EasyPrompt

EasyPrompt, you need to re-educate yourself on how to read and analyse text especially when it comes to the Bible."

@RaymondFrantz, - That is kind of you to be concerned about my education.🤓

"For example the word Tartarus
1. Appears only in Greek literature and has a specific meaning"

While the apostle Peter wrote in the Greek language, I would hardly call the Bible "Greek literature." Peter was definitely a Hebrew.

"2. The Greeks didn't think it to be mythological, they actually believed in a subterranean abode called Tartarus where the fallen angels or Titans where imprisoned"

As a Hebrew educated in the Jewish religion, Peter did not believe in the Greek mythological version of "Tartarus" just like he didn't believe in the Greek mythological version of "Sheol." When Jesus was resurrected from Sheol, did Peter ask him if he had enough to pay Charon for the ride across the river Styx? Or if he brought a snack of perhaps a pomegranate seed for Persephone? No. Peter wouldn't ask those questions because Peter knew when Jesus was dead, he was asleep, not in some "underworld" mythological place.

"3. Peter and Jude borrowed the word and the consept to describe the same place."

RaymondFrantz, your conclusion doesn't match the evidence in the Bible.

"4.Just because you don't believe it , it doesn't make it figurative"

Just because you don't believe it, doesn't make it literal.

"5.Nothing in the context or surrounding verses justifies figurative interpretation"

Except for the entire rest of the Bible: God said Adam and Eve would die if they ate the fruit. Satan said they wouldn't die. Adam and Eve ate the fruit and died. God sent Jesus so people wouldn't have to all die. If Tartarus and Sheol were some places where dead people were really alive then the ransom wouldn't have been needed to buy them back from death because they weren't really dead anyways. Dead means dead, not alive somewhere else.

"6. Watchtower does the same thing, if they don't understand something they make it figurative"

I don't agree with everything the Watchtower does, but that doesn't mean your specific censure about them in this "Tartarus" business is accurate. I don't agree with your statement that "if they don't understand something they make it figurative". They do the reverse with some things they don't understand and make it literal, like their false teaching on the "new scrolls" doctrine. In context, those verses in Revelation 20:12-15 are just talking about documentation, not some kind of new Bible. You seem to like to take things literally. Do you view all of Jesus' illustrations as literal too? Do you think the Lazarus and the rich man illustration is about a literal place?

"May I ask which part of the globe are you from? No need to give specifics"

Yes, you may ask. I am from the surface part of the globe, although sometimes I've been places that seem like hell.😬

(I mean that figuratively, RaymondFrantz😁)

69

Where Does Watchtower Doctrine Contradict Scripture?

by Vanderhoven7 in

here are some areas that i have found:.

not only is watchtower eschatology offbase, which is not critical, but so is watchtower soteriology … which is critical.

the bible says not to put trust in men who cannot save.

EasyPrompt

Amen, Rattigan350😌.

69

Where Does Watchtower Doctrine Contradict Scripture?

by Vanderhoven7 in

here are some areas that i have found:.

not only is watchtower eschatology offbase, which is not critical, but so is watchtower soteriology … which is critical.

the bible says not to put trust in men who cannot save.

EasyPrompt

I find Haggai 2:7 and Ezekiel 34 (almost the entire chapter) very encouraging in this respect. And all this, of course, will be through our Lord Jesus.

@Person...

The context of Haggai 2:7 is very interesting. Jehovah is talking a lot to Zerubbabel and High Priest Joshua. Then in Zechariah's visions there is a lot about cleansing true worship, and in chapter 4 the vision about the two witnesses standing alongside the Lord of the whole earth. The two witnesses in Zechariah are specific people, Governor Zerubbabel and High Priest Joshua.

Later in Revelation 11:4, the angel describes the two witnesses that will prophesy during the great tribulation in sackcloth as follows: "These are symbolized by the two olive trees and the two lampstands and are standing before the Lord of the earth," similar to the vision in Zechariah 4 that described the two specific individuals, Zerubbabel and Joshua.

The following verses in Revelation go on to tell more about these two witnesses: "If anyone wants to harm them, fire comes out of their mouths and consumes their enemies. If anyone should want to harm them, this is how he must be killed. These have the authority to shut up the sky so that no rain may fall during the days of their prophesying, and they have authority over the waters to turn them into blood and to strike the earth with every sort of plague as often as they wish." The actions of these "two witnesses" is similar to Moses and Elijah, two specific individuals who foretold plagues on false religion in past.

The WTBT$ says that the "two witnesses" stand for all of the anointed ones, but that isn't what scriptures show. The "two witnesses" of Zechariah's vision were two specific individuals, namely Zerubbabel and Joshua. Moses and Elijah were also two specific individuals, not a "class". Thus, the scriptures show that the two witnesses of Revelation will be, not a "class" of people, but two specific individuals of the 144,000. They will be identifiable when the condemnations they preach about false religion come true, because they are speaking in harmony with Christ's direction and, as you said, Jesus will be the one to fulfill God's Word..."And all this, of course, will be through our Lord Jesus."🙂

13

Hawaii- Victim Abused by JW Elder Awarded $40 Million

by Newly Enlightened in

https://youtu.be/h0fwwtemmvi.

EasyPrompt

Yeah, that "Information Packet" is a bunch of bunk. When have the elders ever been encouraged by Bethel to follow even their own "rules" if it's not to some selfish "advantage"?

They publish that "Global Information Packet" for public relations reasons. The reality in the congregations is completely different. The KHs I've been in always found loopholes to avoid following "the rules", either by "forgetting" to interview the witnesses in an abuse case, or by writing off the victim as too young/female/crazy/untheocratic/etc, or even by getting a police trespassing order to ban the victim before they had a chance to confront the perpetrator so the elders could say "the victim never did the first step in Matthew 18 of approaching the sinner, so we don't have to do the second step." Out of the elders own mouths I have heard these things. I've seen elders have judicial hearings where the chairman used his position to sit in judgment against the person who reported him and disfellowship the person for reviling and causing divisions when the person was telling the truth and warning the congregation about dangerous behaviors by elders. I've seen victims write/call/email Bethel, to many people at Bethel, to the legal department, the service department, the GB, without any response. And these things all within the past couple of years, since the so-called "new light" you mentioned. Those guys are liars.

It's not surprising. Their foundation is cracked. They are just following in Russell's footsteps. That guy hid abusive behavior from the beginning days of the WTBT$...

Pages 25-27 contains testimony from a court case where Maria described C. T. Russell's ways...

https://archive.org/details/SomeFactsAndMoreFactsAboutCharlesTazeRussell/page/n29/mode/2up

The WTBT$ has a history of twisting the truth. Here is C.T. Russell's own testimony from The Watchtower, 1972, 6/15, page 384

https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1972449

"...and when she desired to come back I totally refused, except upon a promise that she should make reasonable acknowledgement of the wrong course she had been pursuing for a year, and give some assurance of being a friend and not an enemy."

So, this C.T. Russell was willing to disregard the Bible's counsel on marriage in order to cover his butt. Russell wanted Maria to lie. He wanted her to lie about his abuse problem in order to protect his image. He wouldn't let her come home unless she lied and said "oh, Charles didn't do anything wrong!" So he banished her. It's the same thing that happens today. It happened in congregations I've been in. It happens in a lot of congregations. They don't want people who bow to Jehovah; they want people who bow to the elders and who bow to the GB/FDS and bow to the WTBT$. It's sick. That's why these guys want to keep the disfellowshipping doctrine the way they do. It's not to keep the congregation clean. It's not to protect kids. It's to protect their interests. It's for their own sovereignty. Their sovereignty is about to come to an end. They are supposed to be serving as brothers, not kings. "...the land is unclean, and I will bring punishment on it for its error, and the land will vomit its inhabitants out..." 😵‍💫🤢🤮 Jehovah's going to show those religious fakers what it really means to be "dis-fellowshipped" from Jehovah Himself in a new sense of the word.

"I am going to vomit you out of my mouth. Because you say, “I am rich and have acquired riches and do not need anything at all,” but you do not know that you are miserable and pitiful and poor and blind and naked..."

69

Where Does Watchtower Doctrine Contradict Scripture?

by Vanderhoven7 in

here are some areas that i have found:.

not only is watchtower eschatology offbase, which is not critical, but so is watchtower soteriology … which is critical.

the bible says not to put trust in men who cannot save.

EasyPrompt

Semantics are interesting, aren't they!

(Please forgive my grammatically incorrect use of the word "proskyneo" in the expressions below - I think you'll still get the gist of what I mean.🙂)

I'm not against "proskyneo"-ing Jesus. It reminds me of the Dr. Seuss book "Green Eggs and Ham":

"Say! I like green eggs and ham!

I do! I like them, Sam-I-Am!

And I would eat them in a boat.

And I would eat them with a goat...

And I will eat them, in the rain.

And in the dark. And on a train.

And in a car. And in a tree.

They are so good, so good you see!..."

And I would "proskyneo" Jesus while confessing him as Lord,

And I would "proskyneo" Jesus while prostrating before him,

And I will "proskyneo" him while fellowshipping,

And I do "proskyneo" him when seeking relief from burdens and cares,

He is so good, so good you see!...

So let's "proskyneo" away😃!

If the Bible says to "proskyneo" Jesus, then let's do it.🥰

"Honor the son, or God will become indignant

And you will perish from the way."

How can we best "proskyneo" Jesus?

"The one who comes from above is over all others. The one who is from the earth is from the earth and speaks of things of the earth. The one who comes from heaven is over all others. He bears witness to what he has seen and heard, but no man accepts his witness. Whoever has accepted his witness has put his seal to it that God is true. For the one whom God sent speaks the sayings of God, for He does not give the spirit sparingly. The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. The one who exercises faith in the Son has everlasting life; the one who disobeys the Son will not see life, but the wrath of God remains upon him." (John 3:31-36)

We "proskyneo" Jesus when we love him and obey him.

"In answer Jesus said to him: “If anyone loves me, he will observe my word, and my Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our dwelling with him. Whoever does not love me does not observe my words. The word that you are hearing is not mine, but belongs to the Father who sent me. “I have spoken these things to you while I am still with you. But the helper, the holy spirit, which the Father will send in my name, that one will teach you all things and bring back to your minds all the things I told you. I leave you peace; I give you my peace. I do not give it to you the way that the world gives it. Do not let your hearts be troubled nor let them shrink out of fear. You heard that I said to you, ‘I am going away and I am coming back to you.’ If you loved me, you would rejoice that I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I am. So now I have told you before it occurs, so that you may believe when it does occur. I will not speak with you much more, for the ruler of the world is coming, and he has no hold on me. But for the world to know that I love the Father, I am doing just as the Father has commanded me to do." (John 14:23-31)

Jesus told us the Father is greater than he is, thus we can honor Jesus by believing his witness testimony.

"But now Christ has been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep in death. For since death came through a man, resurrection of the dead also comes through a man. For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive. But each one in his own proper order: Christ the firstfruits, afterward those who belong to the Christ during his presence. Next, the end, when he hands over the Kingdom to his God and Father, when he has brought to nothing all government and all authority and power. For he must rule as king until God has put all enemies under his feet. And the last enemy, death, is to be brought to nothing. For God “subjected all things under his feet.” But when he says that ‘all things have been subjected,’ it is evident that this does not include the One who subjected all things to him. But when all things will have been subjected to him, then the Son himself will also subject himself to the One who subjected all things to him, that God may be all things to everyone." (1 Corinthians 15:20-28)

@Vanderhoven7, Jesus and Jehovah must surely rejoice at how much you "proskyneo" the Lord from the heart.🙂Thank you for being an example of one who loves and respects the Lord and encourages others to show him honor and reverence.

(And really everybody here who has shown their love for God and desire to worship with spirit and truth.💖)

33

Does the Governing Body already know that Jehovah (the name) came from Babylon the Great?

by Chevelle in

i'll start by stating the obvious... according to the watchtower, the catholic church is a huge part of babylon the great which is led by satan and his demons.

raymundus martini, a catholic monk (who "represents" babylon the great to some extent), woke up one day in the 13th century and decided to alter yhwh so it can be easily pronounced.

hence the spanish-ish version of yhwh was created... jehova... (sounds something like this in spanish: heh-o-va).

EasyPrompt

Haha! Hey, Jehovah wasn't against letting religious fakers in the past know when they were full of bs...He used their own bs against them...

"If you refuse to listen and to take it to heart to glorify my name,” says Jehovah of armies, “I will send on you the curse, and I will turn your blessings into curses. Yes, I have turned the blessings into curses, because you are not taking it to heart.” “Look! I will ruin your sown seed because of you, and I will scatter dung on your faces, the dung of your festivals; and you will be carried away to it." (Malachi 2:2,3)

The GB will know that they are full of bs when Jehovah puts the bs back in their own faces. They'll have to know that He is Jehovah and He knows bs when He sees it.😁

69

Where Does Watchtower Doctrine Contradict Scripture?

by Vanderhoven7 in

here are some areas that i have found:.

not only is watchtower eschatology offbase, which is not critical, but so is watchtower soteriology … which is critical.

the bible says not to put trust in men who cannot save.

EasyPrompt

"The Watchtower magazine bases its articles on Bible teaching." 🤣🤣🤣

Yeah, it seems they get some of their techniques from this guy who also quotes the Bible...

"Then the Devil took him along into the holy city, and he stationed him on the battlement of the temple and said to him: “If you are a son of God, throw yourself down, for it is written: ‘He will give his angels a command concerning you,’ and, ‘They will carry you on their hands, so that you may not strike your foot against a stone.’”

The Watchtower, serving up Apostasy like my Italian relatives servin' up da 'A'pasta' on Prince Spaghetti Day! A'pasta see for everyone! "Mangia, mangia!"😂

113

Luke 23:43 the NWT

by Ade in

luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.

nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.

now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.

EasyPrompt

I haven't personally had a conversation with all the first century Christians, so it would be presumptuous for me to assume to know what they all believed.

I'm sure some of them misunderstood the Bible, just like some Christians do today.

That many Jews misunderstood the scriptures is clear from what Jesus taught. He quite openly contradicted the teachings of the Jewish religious leaders. Throughout the entire history of the Jewish nation there were false teachings and false practices corrupting pure worship. To adhere to a teaching just because "the Jews used to believe it" isn't a wise course of action.

Jehovah regulated slavery and Jehovah regulated polygamy, but that doesn't mean Jehovah approved of either of those things. Jehovah knew the people were pig-headed and hard-hearted, and He made provisions for the culture of the day. Just because the ancient Jews had slaves or multiple wives, would you do that today? Would Jesus approve? No, he wouldn't.

There is life under the ground today, and it's called bacteria, moles, worms, etc. The Greek mythological teaching of Sheol and Tartarus is different than the situation the Bible describes regarding Sheol and Tartarus. The faithful apostles said not to pay attention to stories like old women tell because those stories were silly and were already going around in the first century and prior to that. You can believe them if you want, but I'm not really into believing the mythology/fable thing. (I'm not into sci-fi either, like all that "evolution theory" make-believe where they use fancy words and high-sounding language to pretend stuff happened when there weren't any witnesses.🙂 Evolution myths are perpetuated in the same way as the 1914/FDS doctrines😜.)