Of course, I would say, this depends on where you are, but in my area, no-one would critisize anybody for going back to school or for continuing. Many people in the congregations here go back to school either to take up vocational training or to take up or complete theoretic education. Young people continue their education. And that is as it should be; I have a university education, not the longest in the world, but anyway 4 years after completing high school, and I am very happy I took it. I regret not completing the remaining 2 years, but that was due to economy, a sad love story and general lack of interest. My having gone back for a couple of years now in order to learn new languages, both modern and Biblical, cause no-one to raise any eyebrows. And I most definitely will fight for that right of mine.
TheOldHippie
JoinedPosts by TheOldHippie
-
24
questions about obtaining Higher Education for JWs
by AjaxMan ini have read a couple of threads the last couple of days that dealt with what you have to give up when becoming a jw.. most posts that i read said they have to give up getting a higher education.
my question is this: is that still a trend today?
that elders frown or discourage young jws from going to college or university by telling them to put kingdom's interest first?
-
-
-
6
Did the WBTS changed its policy on "eating...
by bj inis it true that the wbts changed its policy concerning eating with disfellowshipped members (now they can)?
but as i don't receive their literature anymore, i don't know if this is true or just a rumour.
if so, what is the reference?
-
-
TheOldHippie
Apart from family members, no eating. Therefore, no references, as no changes have taken place.
-
6
To Norm: Nazi camp numbers
by TheOldHippie inplease forgive me, norm, but i am not going to write about the number of casualties during wwii, but about the number of witnesses before and after the war, a question you raised, too.
why not the camp question?
because, i due to education and ancestry speak/read/write german fluently, and take a big interest in this question.
-
-
TheOldHippie
By the way, Norm, I have read much of what is on the Manfred Gebhard pages, but he has such an extremely word-loving way of expressing himself, he simply HAS to use 1,000 words when 100 had been sufficient. I at times have problems seeing whereat he is aiming. especially in his commenting on other opposers, where it is as if he were the only one to be trusted. But OK, I'll check out the documents again.
-
6
To Norm: Nazi camp numbers
by TheOldHippie inplease forgive me, norm, but i am not going to write about the number of casualties during wwii, but about the number of witnesses before and after the war, a question you raised, too.
why not the camp question?
because, i due to education and ancestry speak/read/write german fluently, and take a big interest in this question.
-
-
TheOldHippie
I will return to your post later, as I have some problems seeing what the "real problem" as to the number of pre-war Witnesses is. But, forgive me, I cannot help it or resist it, I must, I simply must, point out this sentence of yours, when you write about the 1974 Yearbook:
"I have read the yearbook, both in Norwegian and English ..."
Well well well, dearest Norm, back in 1974 the YB was not issued in Norwegian, you know that was not till 1984 .........
OK, I simply couldn't resist it! -
6
To Norm: Nazi camp numbers
by TheOldHippie inplease forgive me, norm, but i am not going to write about the number of casualties during wwii, but about the number of witnesses before and after the war, a question you raised, too.
why not the camp question?
because, i due to education and ancestry speak/read/write german fluently, and take a big interest in this question.
-
-
TheOldHippie
Please forgive me, Norm, but I am NOT going to write about the number of casualties during WWII, but about the number of Witnesses before and after the war, a question you raised, too. Why not the camp question? Because, I due to education and ancestry speak/read/write German fluently, and take a big interest in this question. During the last two years I have bought some 50 books and 20 videos dealing with the Witnesses and WWII, written/made either by historians, or by Witnesses, or by authors writing about Witnesses. It takes TIME to go thru it all, and so I need some more time, which I am sure you will understand; there are family members, dogs and horses to be taken care of, too, so I am not among the fortunate ones who can just relax and read, read, read.
OK, so much for that. You quote the W71, stating there were 14,400 Witnesses in 1932; G75 stating there were 19,000 in 1933; W71 stating there were 11,400 in 1946 (you misinterpret here, comparing "out of the camps" with "publishers");G87 stating there 9,000 in 1946.
If we read the 1974 Yearbook not in the cut 'n paste way, but some pages at a time, and compare with other literature, these numbers make sense. First, the pre-war figures:
1932: Graffard and Tristan in "The Bible Students and Nazism" state there were 12,484 Witnesses taking part in a special campaign, and that the peak was 14,400. The next year, there were 19,268 taking part in the special campaign, a formidable increase. Correspondingly, there were 15,000 at the memorial in 1932, but this increased to 25,000 in 1933. So there is no problem here, there was a huge increase from 1932 to 1933, and the Witness literature is not contradictory. You say that nobody had bothered to tell Garbe that Memorial visitors were not the same as Witnesses, but yes, they had. Graffard and Tristan, as does also garbe, write about "people more remotely connected with the Witnesses", so they make the distiction you ask for, but, please be not offended, one must read more than one paragraph. And I understand that is not so easy, if one does not read German; one then has to rely upon one's sources, who perhaps do not read it fluently, either. Much of the documentation Kent is asking for translation help for, is for example documentation that has nothing to do with these questions at all, but since he does not read German, he does not see it.
OK, what about after the war?
The 74YB tells about the first convention at the onset of 46, where there were 9,000 present, and these were the ones to start the Witnessing work again. All publishers were asked to participate, so these 9,000 are evidently viewed as the ones whom it was possible to contact or how we shall put it. The reorganization led to a huge increase, in 1948 there were 27,000 and in 1949 44,000. Correspondingly, at the Memorial in 1947 there were 35,000 - in 1948 48,000 and in 1949 64,000. All according to the 74YB.
I hope therefore that we can agree upon the point that the pre-war and after-war numbers pose no problems.
Nattland and Geist refer to Zipfel, who long before the German branch began research into these matters, write about 2,000 dead. Garbe's 1,200 dead are German only - again, one needs to read more than a couple of paragraphs. And as early as in 1937, as quoted in Graffard and Tristan, the Swiss newspaper "Der Demokrat" runs an erticle telling that 4,000 German Witnesses have been arrested. I will let the WWII numbers rest for a while, but these are a few indications as to a couple of the numbers.
OK, got to work a bit - but I hope the pre- and after-WW figures can be agreed upon?
Greetings from the unlucky guy who has to work a bit in-between trying to research. -
83
no blood cards this year!
by DIM inlast night at meeting they told us to just use our blood cards from last year.
in the past they've always told us how important it was to get it signed every year so that people could see our current views as jw's.....doesn't this new arangement negate everything they've ever said in regards to this?
absolutely nuts!.
-
-
TheOldHippie
Just to inform you that this is a US thing, since there are new cards already issued and given out here in Europe.
-
6
To Norm: Nazi camp numbers
by TheOldHippie ini just post this as a new one, as perhaps you are too busy to keep track of replies to older threads of yours:.
i think most of the dissimilarities /"problems" as to the concentration camps figures you give, or more correctly, the watchtower literature gives, is due to the perspective from which it is seen, what the articles are really about.
when you quote from the 1974 yearbook, that article deals with the history of the german witnesses.
-
-
TheOldHippie
Hello larc; at hand I do not have it, but I will look up references and see what I come up with.
-
6
To Norm: Nazi camp numbers
by TheOldHippie ini just post this as a new one, as perhaps you are too busy to keep track of replies to older threads of yours:.
i think most of the dissimilarities /"problems" as to the concentration camps figures you give, or more correctly, the watchtower literature gives, is due to the perspective from which it is seen, what the articles are really about.
when you quote from the 1974 yearbook, that article deals with the history of the german witnesses.
-
-
TheOldHippie
I just post this as a new one, as perhaps you are too busy to keep track of replies to older threads of yours:
I think most of the dissimilarities /"problems" as to the Concentration camps figures you give, or more correctly, the Watchtower literature gives, is due to the perspective from which it is seen, what the articles are really about. When you quote from the 1974 Yearbook, that article deals with the history of the German witnesses. Other articles deals with for example Concentration camps in Germany, where witnesses from other countries would also be included; other again include or tell about the total persecution, including inprisonment in "ordinary" prisons etc. So one should be a bit careful not just to cut and paste, but to see what is the total amount of people discussed (German, Europe, east Europe etc.). One should, added thereto, not be blind to the fact that research is continually done in this area, new documents found, new life-stories unearthed, and that the whole picture probably is not yet completed, hence varying or increasing or decreasing numbers as to Hesse's or Garbe's or any other researcher's work. German researchers are very careful in their work, and I do not think one should dismiss these two, who are heads of departments in various Concentration camp museums etc. -
41
WTSComplainstoGuardianBatesRepliesFloggingCase
by Lionel_P_Hartley instephen bates recently wrote an article about the flogging death of a girl in chicago http://www.guardian.co.uk/archive/article/0,4273,4301026,00.html.
he kindly sent me a copy of a letter he received from the wts office in pennsylvania and gave me permission to post it.
i don't have time to fix the formatting right now.. .
-
-
TheOldHippie
I find it odd that Steven Bates so openly shows his disgust for the Witnesses; in so doing, the result is that one is not interested in reading his articles on these matters, as he has so pre-conceived ideas, is so biased, that it is impossible to get thru to him with counter-information. A strange way of being a journalist, in stead of being interested in bringing out accurate information he is interested in critizing only. Strange.
-
25
the latest WT PR
by Dogpatch inthe latest media hype on the wt site is amazing:.
http://www.jw-media.org/releases/default.htm?content=020101.htm.
for immediate release .
-
-
TheOldHippie
To Thirdson and Uncle Jimbo:
Sorry, but you cannot calculate that way, because one need not be baptized in order to be a publisher. Since hundreds of thousands (some 10 years ago it was said 20 % or so were not baptized) enter and leave the ranks of the publishers annually without ever having been among the baptized (for example a person with whom a Bible study is conducted is a publisher in January thru March, then again in October thru December, but not in-between), and a baptized person has not been a publisher for two years but then reports his ministry a couple of months a certain year - then all these moments add up to it being close to impossible to calculate as simple as you do it. I tried once to find the real figures, but after days of curves and figures and mathematical formulas I gave up. To be accurate, I had to start at the 1950s somewhere and the add it up year by year, comparing to comments in articles about DF'ed persons etc., but still I ended up with a very inaccurate figure. Once again sorry, but you are doing it way too simplistic.