Posts by thewiz

29

Best urban legends, you heard in the org?

by Nicolas in

jw
friends

personnally, i heard a lot of urban legends about the presence of a devil in a house.

it was always the same kind of story about a devil who lived in a house and then the jw arrive and they pray jehovah and suddendly, the demon go away...

thewiz

This is from someone Who is a missionary down in Bolivia. In my book this guy is one of the best people I know. I've always felt comfortable around him. Loud and ?egarious.

He told me this one personnaly, not second hand.

He said he ran into this guy going door-to-door or incidental.

This guy had a business of locating things for people and what not.

To do this the guy had a skeleton of someone who had died 100+ or so ago.

He would take this skeleton out of the case and set it up or prop it up as best he could. People would then enquire about usually some lost item, like a ring or some other valuable.

This generated him a decent income.

The brother explianed to him the real source of this skeletons power.

Well this brother said, "can you ask it two questions for me."

He said, "Next time you set this thing up ask it/them if Jehovah is the name of the true God and ask it/them how much time they have left." He asked the second one hoping to get a freebie, and maybe the d boys would give him a jump start on Arm.

Months/Years go by and he sees this guy at a kingdom hall building. thinking this guy is a witness by now or studying he approaches him and says, "HowzItGoin?" turns out the guy was only there for free food.

He said, "Remember those two questions I asked you to ask your dummy?"
The guy says, "Yeah I remember."

"when you asked it, about God's name did it say that God's name was Jehovah?" He said, "Yeah, it did."

He then asked, "did you ask it how long they had?"

He said "Yeah, but when I asked it/they got so mad it/they left. It ruined my business."

I had to assume that he wasn't lying to me. I don't think he's the type to just make stuff up.

16

Ray Franz Books Left People With No Where To Go?

by drahcir yarrum in

jw
friends

someone reported in another thread that ray franz has grown concerned that his books have not helped those who have read them because it left them with nowhere to go.

i'm reminded of a phrase that i heard repeatedly during my 30 years as a watchtower toady.

"if this isn't the truth, then there is no truth".

thewiz

I remember a Sis. on the platform who was being interviewed by a Bro. who claims to be of the Anointed, even though Bro. Knorr said he wasn't. My dad was there, said he witnessed the whole thing. Even tried to calm the guy down. Don't be surprised if he gets appointed to the GB, they come as young as 58 on the GB. -I can't resist the personal jabs

Anyway, she was affirming her love for the JWs and the WTBS and said, "If the society told me that this sheet of paper was black (it was white) I would believe them."

Now, at that time I took it the same way I took it now. Someone with absolute blind devotion/credulity to an organization that shouldn't be questioned.

Most others appear to have taken it as a person who has implicit trust and reliablity in the WTBS.

For all of you that like to drop names, tell your buddy Mr. Franz I said, "HowzItGoin Cousin? My GrandPppy drank from the cup jus' like you did, that makes you kin, and youse my Great Uncle."

15

URGENT! Need help!

by SlayerLayer in

jw
friends

i just had a long conversation with my mother.

she went into her "you know it's the truth" routine.

in a nutshell, i told her that i have found too many discrepancies in the wts.. i told her abbout the 607bce date.

thewiz

If you need something from a secular scholarly source I can find in some issues of my Biblical Archeaoly Review mags.

I recall someone asking point blank (in comments and Queries), why does bible archeaology give a destruction date of Jersalem, which appears to be rock solid, at ?586 B.C.E. and the JWs give 607 B.C.E.

You'll have to give me a little time, but I'll find it.

26

JW Stumper Questions!!!

by Brutus in

jw
friends

if the organization did not actually prophesy the end in 1925 and 1975, then how come so many witnesses left the faith immediately afterwards?

("they lost roughly three-quarters of the movement between 1925 and 1928, then suffered huge losses after 1975, when the end didn't come as they had implied over and over again," said jim penton, an ex-witness who writes entries on jehovah's witnesses for the encyclopedia americana.

if the watchtower organization rejects others calling them "inspired" yet the watchtower organization does call themselves "god's spirit-directed prophet" what is the difference?

thewiz

About the Siamese twins, I never really listened to the "serious" replies, it was just fun watching them try to give a real answer. It was all in fun.

The one would be recognized and the other not.

I had 3 more but for the life of me I can't remember them now. I came up with them about the early to mid eighties.

1

To the wiz Pls email for verification!!

by exodus in

jw
friends

tw,.

in your reply to my post you said that you need to verify if i served as po in the congregation.

well why don't you email with your questions and i'll be more than happy to answer it.

thewiz

I just want to know what it's like? I mean, you must know everybody in your area. The things you taught. The children you seen grow up, etc. The value system. Does it ALL go out the window?

The dichotomy.

I don't know what to ask really. The whole level of magnitude for me, is just bewildering.

To be a PO of a Hall takes years.
I never did really make it to that level, I never even made it to M.S. For the most part, I think, when they went flippin' a coin to see who would get appointed by Jehovah's spirit. My name never even entered the raffle. I think it was just a case of them forgetting about me. I mean I was a good Pub for 2 years and a pioneer after that for 2 more, but I was never considered.

I was passed up by a bro. who quit pioneering 3 months into a year long committment so he could get back to work, while he was dating a 17 year old -11 year his junior so he could make enough money to support their new life and show her off at the prom.

Another guy, a severe diabetic, who literally ate himself to death

Another one who didn't know really anything, kinda sounded like a pentacostal

Any another guy who liked PYT's sitting in his lap and letting them drive his car without a license or even a permit to drive.
It is the good ol' boy network isn't it?

Also, probably because I din't kiss butt. I also kept and keep asking those "strange" questions.

Is there an unspoken hierarchy in the wintnesses. I know everytime I mention it to an Elder they say, NO. But how is it then that communication is believed so much from an Elder but not from a "peon"?

I'm a bit at a loss for words.

I mean I (think) know POs, do the elders get together and express doubts about the societies latest teaching(s)? Do you discuss just how you're going to pull this one over on the congregation? Do you all walk away and agree to never talk of these troubling matter(s) again, and hope later that the society "resolves" it?

When I talk to PO's and they give me an answer, do they believe the answer they are giving me or do they have doubts?

Gotta go

Thanks

11

Most Embarassing Comment at the KH

by Ustabee in

jw
friends

what was your [or someone else's]most embarrassing comment?.

mine was during a wt study on christian qualities: on courtesy:.

"courtesy is the lubricant for social intercourse.

thewiz

This wasn't at a meeting, but a home bible study with the Bro. who was studying with our family at the time @1967. This happened to me, I swear.

He asked a simple question, "who was Noah's 3 sons?". We were quite young at the time, and were thinking hard on this one.

He said, "think of a sandwhich." Thinking we would at least say "Ham."

I raised my handle quickly and with a quizical look on my face and a question in my comment said, "Peanut, Butter, and Jelly?"

Was there ever a laugh.

---

There was a CO around here a not quite a couple of years ago. And he gave in his talk, "...they worshipped, the male phallus. (like there's a female one?). For you who don't know what that is, it's the male penis... in a state of arousal...when it's erect... stiff ...and hard, pointing up... to the sky..." At this point I swear I heard children crying, and a few people clearing their throats. After that I had to clear out the ol' vas-defrons myself!

I was waiting for him to get even more graphic.

Which, I think he did at a C assembly. Something about it ejaculating?

Think captain Kirk from star trek: "No e-s--cape...must make it to ba-th---r-o-o-m. A-l-l s-t-a-l-l-s o-c-c-u-p-i-e-d. Oh no, M-u-s-t p-u-t b-a-l-l-s on i-c-e. C-an'-t g-e-t b-lu-e b-a-l-l-s n-o-w... SPOCK! H-o-w c-o-u-l-d y-o-u?"

24

Prophecy Blunders

by Brutus in

jw
friends

" (watchtower p. 56, 1894) .

" (watchtower, p. 150, may 15, 1922) .

" (watchtower, jan. 1, 1924, p5) .

thewiz

AngelofMuZic, I guess your're right about name calling. But as for the arguing, I don't. Ideas are not fostered when averyone says the same thing. Isn't that an Automaton?

If JWs want to post here, what's wrong with it? If they come here what's wrong with it? It's an open-and-free forum isn't it?

Did anyone here know that JWs onced believed that Jehovah's throne, or the seat of his throne was the Pleides in Tauras? -Good One.

I think the best thing is for a person to present their idea or opinion and the rest can evaluate and debate about it for themselves.

Say are their any former CO's or DO's or PO's that post to these forums? I would really like to hear what some of you have to say.

63

Thank You Ray Franz.

by Martini in

jw
friends

hello friends,.

in a thread over at witnesses.net entitled "society bracing for law suits" fellow jw's are taking swipes at ray franz.

not too long ago, while i was still under the wt spell i also would have similarily spoken abusively of ray.

thewiz

zev -you got me, I don't have an image of myself online so I used Kelsey's. I figured it's close enough. But I guess I should take it off. Their server must take a hit everytime the image is downloaded, and can be traced here. I don't want anyone violating a copyright infringement. I'm afraid I don't remember you. If that is you in the image, it's either too small for me to recognize or I've completely forgotten who you are. send me a private email if you wish.

Thanks for you candor. I was simply making the post to generate thinking. His books certainly were/are an eye opener. I appreciate what he has to say. Deacon, thank you for that. Everyone has an opinion, I just didn't know it had to agree with every body else's. I thought that is the kind of thinking these forums were attempting to shatter; you know to buck the system, to challenge it, to foster open ideas; that everyone has their own voice. And not be a parrot for others.

I guess people rate here too, because, "I'm a friend of Mr. Ray Franz, and you aren't". I didn't know it was used as a status symbol. Who is this guy, Randy Waters? The leader of the new church?

Everyone, thanks for your opinions.

24

Prophecy Blunders

by Brutus in

jw
friends

" (watchtower p. 56, 1894) .

" (watchtower, p. 150, may 15, 1922) .

" (watchtower, jan. 1, 1924, p5) .

thewiz

THe God of the bible is the same one start to finish. Jehovah YHWH, whatever.

The God that brought the flood in Noah's day (ya' know the one that killed all those little kids) is the same one that will bring Arm

Just because you don't agree with the WTBS doesn't mean you shouldn't believe in the bible. If the WTBS is false that does NOT mean the bilbe is.

In order for a new kingdom to be established the old ones have got to go. And you don't do that by saying, "Excuse me, but can you please leave?"

Sure there is a tremendous amount of love and mercy there, but it can't be extended forever.

63

Thank You Ray Franz.

by Martini in

jw
friends

hello friends,.

in a thread over at witnesses.net entitled "society bracing for law suits" fellow jw's are taking swipes at ray franz.

not too long ago, while i was still under the wt spell i also would have similarily spoken abusively of ray.

thewiz

I read C-o-C but I am still in the process of reading IS-o-CF

What I try to attempt in my life is to establish truth, that is all. from no matter where i hear it or learn it.

Let's say I read the WT or A! (which i haven't for 2 years) you say I have a closed mind.

Then when you say I read Mr Franz's books I have an open mind. Get my point?

I read everything with an open mind. just because someone says something doesn't make it so.

Remember, what the adage says (especially about newspapers), 'Don't believe EVERYTHING you read."

That includes Mr. Franz

Notice I said "EVERYTHING." I don't believe EVERYTHING he says. I would love to believe every single word of it, believe me I would. But I'm not, I'm just not that way... anymore.

It appears that everything is constucted in a logical manner, the reasoning is just as good as the WTBS -remember he was there writing for you and me at one time, don't forget that. After years-and-years of tautological rebrobate, he still is in essence the same man.

He's just come clean that's all.

He's given his side of the story.

Remember there are always THREE sides to a story.

mine
yours
and the truth

Mr. Franz if you listening, i mean no disrespect. but looking back at a life filled with doubt, depression, and rejection, I don't forgive that easily. It's not in my Italian blood to let go that completely.