Posts by ThiChi

I am in a reading mood!!Has anyone read “The Role of Theology and Bias in Bible Translation: With a special look at the New World Translation of Jehovah's Witnesses?”

Many claims have been made here regarding the reliability of the NWT. I have assumed since leaving that the JW translation is/was probably lacking. Is it? Any comments on this book? Any observations on Dr. Rolf Furuli, the author?

I am ordering the book to hopefully expand my knowledge regarding the “outside” view of the NWT.

Here is the book review:

"The Role of Theology and Bias in Bible Translation: With a special look at the New World Translation of Jehovah's Witnesses"

In the natural sciences, a basic principle is to break everything down to the smallest possible units and then study each unit. In linguistics and in the study of the biblical languages, a similar principle was followed with the word as the basic unit, but from the middle of this century the view has developed that the smallest units which were meaningful for translation had to be the sentence or even the paragraph. The author believes that the pendulum has swung too far in one direction, and that it still is meaningful to work with the word as the fundamental unit of translation. The book therefore suggests that for a particular target group - those who, by the help of their mother tongue, want to come as close as possible to the original languages - a literal translation will be better than an idiomatic one. In the course of discussion it is shown that the principles on which such a translation is based accords fully with modern linguistic principles." --This text refers to an out of print or unavailable edition of this title.
About the Author
Rolf Furuli has worked with the biblical text for four decades. Since his first Greek lecture 24 years ago, his interest in translational questions, particularly in the finer nuances of the verbal systems of the biblical languages, has mushroomed, culminating in the publication of this book.

Rolf Furuli has earned his B.A. and mag.art (a degree between M.A. and Ph.D) from the University of Oslo, with an emphasis on Hebrew; he has also studied Accadian, Arabic, Aramaic, Ethiopic, Greek, Latin,... read more

“We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet

14

how long has man lived on the earth????

by master chief in

jw
friends

i was speaking recently to a jw and we talked about various topics and then i asked her about how long man has lived on the earth she said according to reliable history she said about 6000 years which begining with adam and eve, but what i have learned through external research that reliable history dates man back to millions of years she then said you shouldnt trust dating methods huh so i said the watchtower is keen to use history to show favour to the bible but then dismisses it when it opposes it, so she said they cant prove it so then i said she cant prove her theories she said i can its from bible "huh is she real" she said you must have faith in the bible.but anyway thats jws for u.

1 more thing i was told there has been other civilisations previous to adam and eve does anyone know more about this

ThiChi

DW(I):
“PURE CRAP!”

Wow, your profound rebuttal is pretty hard to argue with. Once more, you win!

“We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet

34

Part 1: Breaking Ground with Crisis of Conscience

by Amazing in

part 1: breaking ground with crisis of conscience .

while attending the district convention at the cow palace in san francisco, the jw man who had brought me into the religion, told me that ray franz had resigned from the governing body, and several were disfellowshipped from bethel in a major cleaning out of apostates.

i was shocked, and asked why ray franz would resign.

ThiChi

Wow, I could have changed the dates and made your story my own! I too, kept going to meetings after COC, thinking “where else can we go?” Also, I thought the Jws where right on many of their doctrines, so why not just keep going.

I look forward to your next installment. Ray’s second book, ISOCF, killed all the JW doctrines for me and that was it for meetings.

“We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet

7

US SUB Does it Again!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

you know, the truth is stranger than fiction.

the us sub that hit the japanese fishing-tourist boat, has done it again.

under a new captain this time, the submarine uss greenville bashed into a us naval vessel, the uss ogden.. yes, the world's great super power, conquorers of afghanistan, victors over terrorism, and grand poobah of the seven seas, cannot seem to find people who can drive a simple submarine.

ThiChi

.......

7

US SUB Does it Again!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

you know, the truth is stranger than fiction.

the us sub that hit the japanese fishing-tourist boat, has done it again.

under a new captain this time, the submarine uss greenville bashed into a us naval vessel, the uss ogden.. yes, the world's great super power, conquorers of afghanistan, victors over terrorism, and grand poobah of the seven seas, cannot seem to find people who can drive a simple submarine.

ThiChi

""Pride is more important than realities of steering a ship through an undregded channel, or any other problem. If the military could go back to the days of secrecy, then the Captain might still be at the helm of the Enterprise with his stellar career intact.""

Very true! Point(s) well taken.

“We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet

14

how long has man lived on the earth????

by master chief in

jw
friends

i was speaking recently to a jw and we talked about various topics and then i asked her about how long man has lived on the earth she said according to reliable history she said about 6000 years which begining with adam and eve, but what i have learned through external research that reliable history dates man back to millions of years she then said you shouldnt trust dating methods huh so i said the watchtower is keen to use history to show favour to the bible but then dismisses it when it opposes it, so she said they cant prove it so then i said she cant prove her theories she said i can its from bible "huh is she real" she said you must have faith in the bible.but anyway thats jws for u.

1 more thing i was told there has been other civilisations previous to adam and eve does anyone know more about this

ThiChi

""According to the Bible, When Was Adam Created?
The ages and relationships of the patriarchs, given in Genesis and shown on the opposite page, allow one to estimate Adam’s creation at slightly more than 6,000 years ago. What uncertainties are involved?

a. These ages are based on the Hebrew (Masoretic) text. The corresponding numbers in the Samaritan and Greek (Septuagint) texts place Adam’s creation about 6,200 and 7,300 years ago, respectively. Which text is closest to the original is an open question. As one issue, consider that Methuselah died 14 years after the flood, if one uses the Septuagint—a logical impossibility, considering that he was not on the Ark. (Some sources say the name Methuselah means, “When he is dead, it shall be sent.” According to the numbers in this chart, the flood began in the year Methuselah died.)

b. Some ages in all three texts have apparently been rounded, because too many numbers end in zero or five. Rounding 15 or so ages in Genesis probably would not inject more than 20 years of total error. A possible problem with the Masoretic and Samaritan texts is that Methuselah died exactly in the year of the flood, despite this rounding.

c. Disagreements exist concerning Terah’s age when Abraham was born. Some argue that Terah was 70 years, not the favored 130 years shown in this chart.1

d. Luke 3:36 lists Cainan as the son of Arpachshad and the father of Shelah. In Genesis, Cainan’s name occurs only in recent copies of the Septuagint—not the oldest. Nor is Cainan in the oldest known copy of Luke. Therefore, a copyist probably added Cainan’s name inadvertently, perhaps taking it from Luke 3:37.

e. Most students of the subject place the death of Joseph (Jacob’s son) between 1606 B.C. and 1690 B.C. An error in this date will add a corresponding error to the year of Adam’s creation.

Theistic evolutionists often raise two objections to the chronological information in Genesis.

a. Some say, pointing to Cainan, that the genealogies contain gaps. However, the possibility of gaps is irrelevant to the year of Adam’s creation. Let us assume that many generations existed between two consecutive patriarchs on this chart. The time between their births is fixed by Genesis, no matter how many generations might be missing. (For example, Enosh was born 105 years after Seth’s birth.) The writer or compiler of this information had a careful, systematic, and mathematical way of linking the chronology into one continuous family record—in contrast to other genealogies in the Bible.

b. Some have said that the long ages of the preflood patriarchs resulted from lunar months being incorrectly counted as years. If so, Mahalaleel and Enoch were 5 years old when they had children.

a. Noah was almost a contemporary of Abraham. Noah’s son Shem, born before the flood, nearly outlived Abraham. Surprisingly, many people think of Noah and Shem as relatively ancient (or imaginary) but accept Abraham as historically recent.

b. Notice the continuous chain of overlapping life spans of Adam, Methuselah, Shem, and Abraham or Isaac.

c. Enoch’s time on earth was cut short, but not by death. (See Hebrews 11:5.)

Genesis 5 says that each of the first 9 patriarchs had “other sons and daughters” besides the son in the patriarchal line. In other words, each family had at least 5 children: 3 sons and 2 daughters. Statistically, all 9 families would probably have at least 3 sons and 2 daughters if each family had 10 or more children. (Conversely, all 9 families would probably not have had 3 sons and 2 daughters if each family had 9 children or less.) If 10 or more children per family were typical before the flood, and plagues, famines, and wars were no more common than in the last several thousand years, then the world’s population at the time of the flood would have exceeded today’s population of 6 billion people.

If during the 351 years between the flood and Abraham’s birth, people reached sexual maturity at 30 years and couples averaged only 8 children (who also averaged 8 children), the world’s population could have reached 80 million people.""

“We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet

7

US SUB Does it Again!

by Amazing in

jw
friends

you know, the truth is stranger than fiction.

the us sub that hit the japanese fishing-tourist boat, has done it again.

under a new captain this time, the submarine uss greenville bashed into a us naval vessel, the uss ogden.. yes, the world's great super power, conquorers of afghanistan, victors over terrorism, and grand poobah of the seven seas, cannot seem to find people who can drive a simple submarine.

ThiChi

Is your claim then “excessive incidents?” Though no one wants these accidents to happen at all, human error will always be present. I would like to see the “numbers” to formulate a point of reference. How many subs are out at a time? How many trips do these subs make? What is the ratio of accidents to non incidents? Is two collisions a lot compared to the number of missions/trips made in a year or years? How many nautical miles are covered every year? This information would help us to ascertain if we are dealing with incompetence or just human error based on the numbers.

Also, the US seems to be more open with these reports. To what extent have other nation’s Sub accidents gone unreported?

“We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet

8

Towing Jehovah

by ThiChi in

jw
friends

hey, i just ordered this book, "towing jehovah.

" any out there read it yet?

sounds like a gas........... ""a past winner of the world fantasy award, morrow could easily claim another prize, for the year's most outlandish fictional premise, if there were prizes for such things.

ThiChi

Francois: Never heard of it! give some background, if you wish...please

“We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet

8

Towing Jehovah

by ThiChi in

jw
friends

hey, i just ordered this book, "towing jehovah.

" any out there read it yet?

sounds like a gas........... ""a past winner of the world fantasy award, morrow could easily claim another prize, for the year's most outlandish fictional premise, if there were prizes for such things.

ThiChi

Valis: You are on the ball, Bro! You had the scoop on Magic Christian movie/soundtrack, you read cool books, Man, if you are ever in the Palm Desert area, drinks are on me bro......glad you post!!

“We all fell down from the milky way, hanging around here for the judgement day, heaven only knows who’s in command.”- Jimmy Buffet