thinker

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Posts by thinker

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  8

  Why is heaven UP ?

  by thinker in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  how is it that heaven came to be in the sky?

  the hebrew word for heaven can mean "the abode of god" or "the sky, atmosphere, etc".

  the bible has hundreds of references to heaven being up in the sky.. is it a carryover from pagan religions which had gods for the sun, moon, stars, etc...?

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  thinker

  How is it that heaven came to be in the sky? The hebrew word for heaven can mean "the abode of God" or "the sky, atmosphere, etc". The bible has hundreds of references to heaven being up in the sky.
  Is it a carryover from pagan religions which had gods for the sun, moon, stars, etc...?
  Perhaps the large number of mysterious and unknown occurances in the sky (movement of sun, moon, stars; thunder, lightning, rainbows, rain, wind,etc..) caused men to believe God resided there.
  What do you think? Why is heaven UP?
• 
  15

  Happy snakes & simple pleasures....

  by thinker in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  the other day at work i saw two harmless brown water snakes in a pool of water.

  the pool was fed by two large pipes that allow a stream to pass under a road.

  the water drops a couple feet from the pipe to the pool.

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  thinker

  The other day at work I saw two harmless brown water snakes in a pool of water. The pool was fed by two large pipes that allow a stream to pass under a road. The water drops a couple feet from the pipe to the pool.
  The snakes were directly under the flow of water rushing down from above; heads held a couple inches above the surface. I thought maybe they were waiting for "dinner" to drop by, but this is probably the worst place in the pool to hunt (fast moving targets...). I soon realized that these guys were relaxing! They had found the "jacuzzi spot" and were really enjoying the sensations. It reminded me that simple pleasures are easy to overlook.
  So, what's your jacuzzi spot? What simple pleasures give you joy?

  thinker
• 
  19

  Silentlambs:Response from JW re: pedophile issue:

  by stocwach in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here is a response from a dub whom i emailed the press link from the courier journal yesterday (i will be meeting with him in a couple weeks, so any comments/rebuttals from you would be greatly appreciated):.

  "wasn't dateline successfully sued by gm for their doctored report on the (as.

  dateline called it the exploding gm pick-up truck controversy) fuel tank.

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  thinker

  stocwach,
  Your friend seems to think all molesters are automatically booted out of the org.
  This BOE proves they are not.
  http://www.microtec.net/mleblank/org/lettrewt14march1997.html

  "What can the elders do to help protect our children? The elders should be alert to the activity of any who are known to have molested children in the past. "

  "What should elders do when a former child molester moves to another congregation? As outlined in the February 1991 Our Kingdom Ministry "Question Box" and the August 1, 1995, letter to all Bodies of Elders, our policy is always to send a letter of introduction when a publisher moves to another congregation. It is imperative that this be done when one who is known to have been a child molester moves. The secretary should write on behalf of the elders to the new congregation's body of elders and outline this publisher's background and what the elders in the old congregation have been doing to assist him. Any needed cautions should be provided to the new congregation's body of elders. This letter should not be read to or discussed with the congregation. This information should be kept in the congregation's confidential files where it can be reviewed by any elder. "

  "It may be possible that some who were guilty of child molestation were or are now serving as elders, ministerial servants, or regular or special pioneers. Others may have been guilty of child molestation before they were baptized. The bodies of elders should not query individuals. However, the body of elders should discuss this matter and give the Society a report on anyone who is currently serving or who formerly served in a Society-appointed position in your congregation who is known to have been guilty of child molestation in the past. "

  Seems there are wolves among the sheep.
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  8

  Is the GB considered the 12 Apostles?

  by Double Edge in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  excuse my ignorance, but as some of you know i've never been a jw.

  my question is about the governing board (gb...right?

  ): since jw's believe that they are the 'church' that jesus set up with his 12 apostles, do they consider the gb the continuation of those apostles?

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  thinker

  Here's some quotes, you decide what they mean....

  Russell was said to have "revived the great truths taught by Jesus and the apostles." (see Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, p. 17)

  Christian elders govern by using their "abilities to direct" (Greek ky-ber-NE seis) in providing leadership and guidance in local congregations. (1 Corinthians 12:28) But the apostles and other elders in Jerusalem served as a body to give guidance and counsel to all the congregations. (Acts 15:1,2,27-29) Today, therefore, a governing body of elders provides spiritual oversight for Jehovah's Witnesses worldwide.
  (Watchtower; December 15, 1989; p. 21)

  Confident of the loyalty of his faithful creatures, Jehovah delegates authority. So does his Son. From among his anointed followers, "the faithful and discreet slave," he has chosen a few to serve as a visible governing body. (Matthew 24:45) In the first century, this group was composed of the apostles and several older men in Jerusalem.
  (Watchtower; Jan. 15, 1990; p. 26)

  They have a modern Governing Body of older Christian men from various parts of the earth who give needed oversight to the worldwide activities of God's people. these men, like the apostles and older men in Jerusalem in the first century, are anointed members of the faithful and discreet slave class designated by Jesus to care for all of his Kingdom interests here upon earth. History has proved that they can be trusted to follow the direction of the holy spirit and that they do not rely on human wisdom in teaching the flock of God the ways of genuine peace.
  (The Watchtower; Dec. 15, 1989; p. 6)

  "However, all person who have love for the truth are invited to examine this claim that Jehovah's Witnesses really do have the truth. In doing so, they should imitate what those persons in the first century did who listened to the preaching of the apostles: They received the word with the great eagerness of mind, carefully examining the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so."
  (Watchtower July 1, 1979, p. 25)

  WT June 1, 82:
  "Today, a remnant of this 'faithful slave' is still alive on earth. They occupy a position similar to that of Paul...when that apostle said of the wonderful truths...:"It is to us God has revealed them through his spirit."

  WT 15/01/94, p. 16
  In the past, Jehovah ruled and revealed truths through individuals, such as prophets, kings and apostles. Jesus said that during his royal presence, he would identify a faithful body of followers, a 'faithful and discreet slave'. In 1919 this slave was identified as the remnant of anointed Christians. Since then, as represented by the Governing Body of Jehovah's Witnesses, it has been the center of theocracy on earth.
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  12

  What will future generations do?

  by sleepy in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i was looking forward to the future, before it was drasticly cut short by my realisation that i will probably die in about 50 years.. but what kind of advances will we see in that time and on into the future.. just whatching a film from 5 or 10 years ago it seams like a different world.. i was watching a film last night and looking at the size of the mobile phones ,they looked like telephone boxes, and of course no internet, computers in cars to tell where you are or dvd players etc.. go back a little further and we have no videos ,no computers at all.. back a hundred years or so and we loose cars, plane , tv and most things we take for granted.. so what does the future hold?.

  i find it quite exciting to think of what advances could be made.. cures for diseases , improvments to the human body?more information on the universe,improved transport lots of things.. going massivly into the future how about this, ressurection of dead people?

  (even people who lived thousands of years before like us).

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  thinker

  Some trends to consider:
  1) Computers continue to get smaller.
  2) Communication is going "wireless".
  3) Medical science is using more man-made equipment inside the human body.

  If the 3 trends above continue, all humans will communicate instantly via a small computer inserted in the body. This forum is a crude example of where we are heading.
• 
  12

  HELP! NEED INPUT/EXPERIENCES

  by stevieb1 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i have come to the conclusion that so many of the society's doctrines are not scriptural (both major and minor ones) that i can no longer cal it "the truth".

  i still go to congregation meetings, but i can't see myself going for much longer - a bit of a crisis of conscience.

  however, there seems to be one piece of seemingly logical advice from the elders that i cannot come to terms with despite what i have found.. even amongst the elders that have spoken to me there seems to be some who do not accept the entire body of doctrines of the society, yet because they see the fruitage of matthew 7:17, 20 being expressed within the congregation and not elsewhere they stay and advise me to stay too.

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  thinker

  Hi Stevie,
  

  They say that all worship alike in the organization yet many in Christendom, even in the same churches do not always believe the same even on such doctrines as the Trinity.

  Are they saying that ALL JW's believe the same? This is not true. The only difference is that other churches have the freedom to voice their different thoughts, while JW's must harbor their doubts privately.

  For a reference on church authority see the Feb. 1886 WT:

  "The church of our Lord Jesus Christ is composed of converted people only, and is of divine institution.

  Christ is the only Head of the church; and the Word of God the only rule of faith and practice.

  Every person who loves the Lord Jesus Christ, and who obeys the gospel of God our Saviour, is a member of his Spiritual Church, and entitled to a recognition as such by fellow members.

  There is but one church, of which Christ is the living head.

  When men affirm that something more than membership in the body of Christ is essential to membership in their religious organizations, they make it other than the church of Christ, and make themselves greater than the Lord, for they refuse to receive him whom they admit the Divine Master has accepted. (June 1, 1985 Watchtower, p30:
  2 Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you
  as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-
  directed organization?)

  The only division that is recognized by the divine word is a local division. All the members of this holy church who are found in a given locality, are the church of that place. They ought, indeed, to recognize and receive one another, but only as Christ has received them. In all things they ought to regard it as his church, that he alone can constitute membership, and that all whom he has accepted are for that reason to be recognized as members of his church in that place.

  Let all then who regard each other as members of the body of Christ, come together in any given place as the church of that place. Let the great object be in all cases, not the building up of an organization, but growth in grace and knowledge; let such local churches be in true fellowship with all of God's people; not because they hold to certain beliefs or are organized in a peculiar method, but because they belong to our common Lord.

  thinker
• 
  5

  STRONGLY ADHERING TO HUMAN LEADERS

  by somebody in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  march15,1998 watchtower.

  dangers of following men.

  "a "sect" has been defined as "a group adhering to a distinctive doctrine or to a leader.

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  thinker

  Zion's Watchtower Feb. 1886
  "When men affirm that something more than membership in the body of Christ is essential to membership in their religious organizations, they make it other than the church of Christ, and make themselves greater than the Lord, for they refuse to receive him whom they admit the Divine Master has accepted.

  The only division that is recognized by the divine word is a local division. All the members of this holy church who are found in a given locality, are the church of that place. They ought, indeed, to recognize and receive one another, but only as Christ has received them. In all things they ought to regard it as his church, that he alone can constitute membership, and that all whom he has accepted are for that reason to be recognized as members of his church in that place."
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  14

  Need help with Isa 66:6...need decent argument...

  by TheApostleAK in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  has anybody got a decent argument that defeats the wt argument that isa 66:6 in the septuagint contains the greek word naos in this scripture.. basically this is one of the arguments the wt uses to show the greek word naos can mean more than the sanctuary.. more info see the great crowd article of 1981.. help!.

  from alan

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  thinker

  Any thing with "666" in it CANNOT be trusted! It Satanic.
• 
  57

  ANOINTED Jehovah Witness has no doubt,

  by lotus in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  hello, i am new to this website, but have to be straightforward and say that i do not agree with most subjects and contents.

  i am an active jehovah witness, but i am very lonely so i am looking for others with the "hope" or to speak to those that know someone that does.

  it has been a long , hard road for me.

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  thinker

  Hi Lotus,
  I've never been a JW, so put me on "the list". However, most JWs shun me because my wife is DA, so you may shun me as well.

  thinker

  ps. I thought the door for anointed was closed long ago.???
• 
  132

  Can any Witness possibly anwser this question?

  by jerome in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  hello all... i came across this line of questioning many months on the inet so i decided that i would submit just this once to peer pressure and make a usefull contribution to the board.. here is the question... is jesus just "a god?".

  many of the regular inet surfers would have come across this line of questioning before so if you have you could just sit back and relax and read the replys.. <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>.

  me: so is he a 'lesser true god' or a 'lesser false god?'.

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  thinker

  This discussion reminded me of the site that shows the WT teach that Jesus is Jehovah.
  Here's the short version:
  Rev 22:12-13 Who's the speaker? Jesus or Jehovah?
  WT answers:
  1908: Jesus
  

  1955: Jesus
  

  AUG. 1978: Jehovah
  

  TWO MONTHS LATER
  OCT. 1978: Jesus
  

  Revelation book pg. 316: Jehovah
  

  Revelation book pg 319: Jesus
  

  So there you have it. Jesus, Jesus, Jehovah, Jesus, Jehovah, Jesus...

  Sounds like Jesus is Jehovah!