Posts by thinker

After eating from the tree of knowledge, God hands out punishment to everyone involved. The serpent must crawl on his belly (did it walk upright before?), Eve must have pain during child birth, and Adam must work the ground in order to eat. No mention of living or dying or how long they might have lived other wise. God also explains to Adam why he dies and turns to dust; namely because he was made from dust ! So it seems from the moment God made Adam from dust, Adam was always intended to return to dust.

The second tree, the tree of life would have allowed Adam to live to an Age. Judging by the recorded ages of Adam's ancestors, this was probably 1000 years.

thinker

29

God telling us something through coincidences?

by jst2laws in

just a few minutes ago i happen to look down at my odometer and it was rolling up the last zero for 144,000.

at the same moment i looked to my right and i happen to be passing the kingdum hall.

is god sending me a message????

thinker

Just a few minutes ago I happen to look down at my odometer and it was rolling up the last zero for 144,000. At the same moment I looked to my right and I happen to be passing the Kingdum Hall. Is God sending me a message????? Yes, He is; but like all His messages you have to figure out what it means. Some possible interpretations: 1. Your car is anointed, keep it forever. 2. The full number has come in, get a new car immediately. thinker

7

What have we to offer ???

by vitty in

jw
friends

my husband and son and i stopped going to meetings about 18 months ago.

i still have a daughter, her husband, his mum and dad, my elderly mum, my 2 sisters and nieces still in.

i would love to tell them what ive found out but i think it would backfire so hold my piece.

thinker

My husband and son and I stopped going to meetings about 18 months ago.

Good for you!

I still have a daughter, her husband, his mum and dad, my elderly mum, my 2 sisters and nieces still in.

Sorry to hear that.

I would love to tell them what ive found out but I think it would backfire so hold my piece.

If they don't ask you directly, that sounds like a good plan.

They have a view of everlasting life, a safe life with friends and security, a life with a hope for the future!!!

Yes, but I think you realize that is all an illusion.

If I told them the "truth" that I know, what do I give them in exchange? at the time it was I who went looking and found. Is it my duty to tell them ??

That's a hard question to answer. I think you're saying that if you destroy their faith without any alternatives then they'd be lost. Without knowing them personally, I can't say if this would be true or not. Perhaps you can just wait for them to ask you why you've changed your mind about the WT. They must be curious.

What the hell do I tell them. what do I GIVE them.???????

If the time comes and they want the truth, then they will find their own way to cope and then determine for themselves what to believe, just like you did. If they ask about the WT you owe them the truth, but you don't have to give them any other beliefs to fill the void. Most ex-JWs enjoy the freedom of choosing what they will believe next. Take care, thinker

23

Here's a speech all ex-JWs will enjoy!

by thinker in

jw
friends

i have a freeware program that can do some amazing things with sound files.

recently i downloaded a speech by a d.o.

concerning 1975 and started "tweeking" it.

thinker

Hi All,

I have a freeware program that can do some amazing things with sound files. Recently I downloaded a speech by a D.O. concerning 1975 and started "tweeking" it. I think you'll all enjoy the finished product.

Here's the link to the two-minute, highly modified, speech in mp3:

http://savefile.com/files/8993324

My thanks to freeminds.org and Mr. Charles Sunutko for the raw materials.

thinker

9

Erratic jw dogma virtue or vice?

by greendawn in

jw
friends

the jw dogma makers have tacitly admitted that numerous of their interpretations of the bible are erroneous, by bringing in new ones to replace the previous.

in fact they keep shifting their positions on most issues over the 130 years of their existence.

they try to present this as a kind of virtue: they admit their errors and humbly change them.

thinker

Hi Greendawn,

I'm not sure that changing doctrines and beliefs are an effective tool to use with active JWs. In my experience the average JW is bored out of his mind and actually looks forward to changes of any sort just to liven things up. There's always a buzz of excitement when word gets out of an upcoming change, so trying to make changes look bad is a non-starter.

thinker

13

#4 Talk tonight

by RichieRich in

jw
friends

so the elders, in all their spirit appointed glory, decided to give a talk.. sadly, i'm too lazy to fill it with apostate and atheistic undertones.

so i just did a straight out, boring ass talk.

and i know you all wish you could be there to see me, but since you can't, i'll put up a transcript of my talk.

thinker

I liked it! Can you send a copy to my JW mother-inlaw? She could really use it!

thinker

18

Does Jehovah exist without Jesus?

by Michelle5480 in

after years of being a jw, im now on the outside and i question everything.

one thing i cant deny though is that jehovah is god.

my doubt now is, was jesus just tagged on as a reason to create christianity.

thinker

Hi Michelle,

When we touch the issue of God having a son, I wonder why?
We reproduce I think to leave a sort of legacy. So when we no longer exist we have something of ours to live on. Why would God need to have a son? If he has a son and we are created in his image (God's) does God have a wife or a female counterpart?

God used to have a wife, her name was Ashera. They jews dumped her for an all-male god and a male dominated religion. Christianity followed suit with male domination in their religion. This male god reproduced without the help of any female and had a son (another male, of course). It probably has something to do with males envying the fact that only females can produce new life. Personally I think the goddess based religions sounded a lot more fun.

Ever wonder what would have happened if Jesus had been a girl?

thinker

25

The EVERLASTING Lie

by thinker in

<http://www.tentmaker.org/books/aion_lim.html> .

<http://www.tentmaker.org/books/time/time_12.html> .

<http://www.tentmaker.org/books/time/time_13.html> .

thinker

"Athanasia occurs only in 1 Corinthians 15:53f (referring to resurrected believers)"

The WT applies this verse to the anointed as shown by this article (note also that perfect humans can die):

Questions

From Readers

What

is the difference between immortality and everlasting life?

Endless life will be enjoyed both by anointed ones receiving spirit life in heaven and by humans whom God declares righteous for life on the Paradise earth. So if you think about the outcome, immortality in heaven and everlasting life on earth result in basically the same thing-living forever. There are, though, some comments about immortality that can be made.

The Greek word translated "immortality" (athanasia) is formed from the negative a and from thanatos, meaning "death." Immortality thus has the basic sense of ‘without death,’ or deathlessness. Understandably, Jehovah is the absolute source of all life and is immortal. (Psalm 36:9; 90:1, 2) This is confirmed by the fact that his glorified Son, who now "is the reflection of [God’s] glory and the exact representation of his very being," is described as "the King of those [men] who rule as kings and Lord of those who rule as lords, the one alone having immortality." (Hebrews 1:3; 1 Timothy 6:15, 16) No creature can take Jesus’ life as an immortal, which makes him different from humans or spirits that can die. Further, we read: "Now that [Christ] has been raised up from the dead, [he] dies no more; death is master over him no more."-Romans 6:9.

Though immortality is, in a sense, everlasting life, immortality apparently implies more than that its possessor will live forever. It seems to indicate a particular quality of life, and it is linked with incorruption. The Bible says about spirit-anointed Christians who receive the heavenly reward: "This which is corruptible [in its human body] must put on incorruption, and this which is mortal must put on immortality. But when this which is corruptible puts on incorruption and this which is mortal puts on immortality, then the saying will take place that is written: ‘Death is swallowed up forever.’"-1 Corinthians 15:53, 54.

Still, the Bible does not provide much detail about the quality of life termed immortality. We do know that mortal humans-even perfect humans having the prospect of endless life on earth-must eat and drink to maintain life, or they die and their bodies experience corruption. (Genesis 2:9, 15, 16) No doubt immortality involves a quality of life that does not need to be sustained like that. Thus it could be said that all who become immortal are not subject to death or that ‘death is master over them no more.’ That would harmonize, too, with their receiving incorruptibility, indicating that their spirit body or organism is inherently beyond decay, ruin or corruption. (Compare 2 Corinthians 5:1; Revelation 20:6.) In these ways a difference might be seen between immortality and everlasting human life.

Jehovah God is the perfect Judge who rewards anointed ones with immortality. When he in his boundless wisdom and insight determines such ones to be completely tested and unquestionably qualified for immortality, we can trust that they will forever be faithful. All whom Jehovah judges worthy of endless life, whether as immortal spirits or as perfect humans, will be able to worship him forever. Thus, in the final analysis, both everlasting human life and immortality in heaven result in endless life.-John 17:3.

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"What about all the texts which use aiôn or aiônios to describe the future life of believers or the life of God? In such cases, by your synthetical approach, those words do mean "eternal/everlasting," don't they?"

If you've read the links I provided you know that when God is the subject then aion is assumed to be a never-ending age. As for us mere humans aion would mean a long, long indefinite time, but not forever. If ohlam had meant everlasting to the jews they could have translated it as aidios (which clearly means everlasting) in the septuaguint. Instead they chose aionios which means age-lasting.

thinker