i know these topics have been well-covered in many places.
this is just me wanting to compile a list of concise reasons why i am sure the wt interpretation of the deluge is untenable.
this is my first draft.
Friday,
Are you saying my speculation as to how God could have brought about the deluge at some unspecified time and not leave a trace is wrong. The Bible is not forth-coming about many aspects of the flood, are my speculations of God's ability to do this wrong?
Nosdriht
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
i know these topics have been well-covered in many places.
this is just me wanting to compile a list of concise reasons why i am sure the wt interpretation of the deluge is untenable.
this is my first draft.
It seems like the one thing that most people fail to take into consideration when considering such perplexities is the ability which God has to accomplish the unimaginable. What is really so unthinkable about the idea that they got on the Ark simply by God having literally picked them up and transported them there.
On that basis answering Moxy's question is sinch.
How could all the world's highest mountain ranges have been built up in the last few thousand years while providing all the evidence to the contrary?
Because, God made the mountains grow high very quickly while preserving the look of antiquity.
Why do lake varves and ice core samples show no evidence of the Deluge?
Because God created the mile thick ice sheets that only look like the oldest layers are 400,000 tears old.
How can bristlecone pines and other trees show continuous growth through the period to which the Flood is attributed with no signs of spectacular climate changes?
Because God picked them up and preserved them separate to the ark.
How did any flora survive underwater for a year, without sunlight, under fantastic pressures? How did such a devastating blow to worldwide ecosystems not leave geological evidence?
Same reason as previous
How did marine life survive? Different flora and fauna are suited to saltwater, freshwater, coastal areas or deep seas.
Same reason again
Most require sunlight and clean water. How could the turbulent mixing of water and debris not kill off entire ecosystems?
See previous
Why do genetic trees built with genetic biology not show a severe genetic bottleneck so recently?
Because God saved all the diversity separate to the Ark.
Why do so many sites like Egypt, China, Sumer, Indus, America show evidence of continuous human occupation through the time of the Flood?
God preserved human habitats so it only seems that there was continuous occupation.
How did the animals like the South American sloth and Antarctic penguin travel to the ark? How did they sustain themselves living in completely different environments? Why are there no traces of land bridges in geology and no traces of animals indigenous to these other continents in the Middle East?
Answered already
How did they travel back? How did they get off the mountain? How could the same land bridges have arisen after the flood?
God beamed them back Star Trek style
How could a water canopy contain enough water to flood the earth without raising temperature and air pressure to beyond that which could sustain life?
Water canopy didn’t exist, God guided dirty-snowball comets to create the flood.
How could such a large wooden structure have withstood the structural stress of the seas without leaking?
God put a protective force field around it.
How could delicate and evidently ancient structures like the cinder cones at Auvergne or the Great Coral Reef have survived the deluge?
God protected them with special force field enclosed air or water bubbles.
If humanity lived in a small enough area that Noah could have preached to everyone, then why flood the whole planet?
Because God can do anything, didn't you know that, silly?
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
i know these topics have been well-covered in many places.
this is just me wanting to compile a list of concise reasons why i am sure the wt interpretation of the deluge is untenable.
this is my first draft.
Moxy,
Your language already covers this but a cople of things on populations and genetics. If there was a global flood very recently in geological terms we'd expect to see mass extinctions of at least amphibians, reptilian, avian and mamalian life. There would be an explosion of variation since then with a common origin dating back only a few centuries. That variation could be tracked in mitochondrial DNA and all species would have a common female progenitor about 4000 years ago. Sorry, but there's no evidence for that either.
THirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
i was talking with a jw a few days ago, and he said that current events (natch) convinced him more than ever that soon the nations will turn on religion, and the great tribulation will begin.
he said that the current hatred felt toward islamic extremists, plus columnists pointing out christian extremists (i.e.
abortion clinic bombers) are also dangerous, mean that soon the tide will turn and all religion will be viewed as bad.. i responded that although extremists are hated, i've been amazed at how carefully the governments have differentiated between extremists and muslims in general.
From what I have seen among local churches have been efforts to reach out to other groups. Not only have there been inter-faith services for Christian churches but forums held with Jews and Muslims. When a Christian congregation prays for the people of Afghanistan I think they offer support to their Islamic counterparts.
While quite a few people can't distinguish between muslim extremists and ordinary followers of Islam I believe on the whole that people are supportive of religious belief and more tolerant now.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
here's a representation of how many times that christendom has hit the bullseye with regards to knowing what the bible teaches.
she teaches that man has an immortal soul; that heaven is the only destiny of the "saved" (no paradise earth then); that jesus and his father are co-eternal/equal (that jesus had no beginning); they say that what jacob and his mother did was bad; political envolvement (part of the world); loves pagan holidays; thinks that god produced the star of bethlehem;thinks that the commission to preach only applies to the clergy and not to the laity; etc., etc., etc.. .
christendom considers herself to be christ's representatives.
Christendom is full of imperfect men and women and they mistakes and sometimes set false expectations...oops, sorry that's the WTS excuse.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
did you have a favourite publication?
what was your least liked publication?
creation book for the shady wt take on science.. unseen spirits, do they help us or do they harm us?
I hated all the prophetic books, Man's Salvation etc. The Revelation Climax book and the Greatest Man books were done to death and they just became tedious. The Greatest Man book could have been good but there is far too much sole-JW interpretation. The Revelation Book I thought was poor and when I believed most of the stuff. I couldn't get the 7 angelic trumpet blasts as being resolutions at 1920's Bible Student conventions when I conducted the study! The worse thing in the Rev Climax book was the admittance that Russell got 1914 wrong based on counting a year zero and they found they had to adjust the fall of Jerusalem to the Babylonians to 607 BCE from 606 BCE. I thought that was fishy when I was a faithful dub...made it kinda easy to realise WTS dating was all screwy later on.
Favorite book, I liked the Creation book, but for the wrong reasons. I studied more and went back to college part-time after my interest in life-sciences was aroused. Ended up with a slightly different view to what the Creation book teaches.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
do the math:.
1998 - 3,802 congregations (1999 yrbook figure) .
(drum roll, please).
We need JWD's input here. However, do not women make up the vast majority of JWs in Japan? For a congregation to function it needs at least 3 elders and ideally more. If there is a lack of qualified brothers to assume the elder role then congregation amalgamation is the only alternative.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
according to http://observer.org/apps/pbcs.dll/article?site=wo&date=20011119&category=jwandsociety3&artno=111200001 the 2001 service report (hugs and kisses to kent for posting it), jw's in the us of a spent almost 179 million hours of work in order to acheive zero growth!!!.
roflmao!!.
xjw user submitted news & views at http://xjwnews.com
Mike,
Another thing to note. The 2001 peak is 9000 less than the 2000 peak while the average number of publishers increased by just 689. In the same year 28,000 new ones were baptized yet the overall numbers barely changed. The number gone missing is equal to 340 congregations.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
to jw's everywhere - can you supply the most recent reference from the literature that tells how long a creative day is?
and, can you supply the most recent reference to a "creative day" for comparison?
if you're not sure of the answer, perhaps you should write to the society and ask.
Hi Lionel,
:"Let me gamble on how many replies this thread generates from faithful JWs..."
Er, did you gamble on zero?
We have discussed this several times over the past few months. The Creation book isn't specific on any period length. For a while after that book was published the 7000 year time period was still being used in the Watchtower regarding the 7th creative day. Like most dates and time periods the WTS has shyed away from setting dates that can be easily disproved. However, they haven't been very specific about the changes.
For myself I believe Genesis days are meant to be "days" in the sense we all know and love. However, I don't believe the creation stories in Genesis should be taken as a true and scientific record of creation either. Life on Earth has been around for a very, very long time.
Thirdson
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
i'm feeling silly, so here's some of my favourite silly uk place names, courtesy of http://www.jump-around.com/tools/place-names/.
assloss.
balls cross.
A couple of favorites near where I used to live:
Upton Snodsbury (a deliciously snooty village)
Little Piddle (A pissy little village almost as snooty)
Thirdson
P.S. I'm posting later tonight 'cause I just watched the Vikings win! hic!
'To avoid criticism, say nothing, do nothing, be nothing'
