prologos

Joined

• started 182 topics
• posted 8,093 times   see topics posted on
• send a message

Posts by prologos

• 
  88

  What was there before the Big Bang?

  by Brokeback Watchtower in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wpuhj98vjoa.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hik8hj0_t9q.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  prologos

  well, listened to it, and it did not say anything about that "before" question, but it reiterated the findings, that no matter how much the universe expands, there is always more energy in the newly acquired space, implying and confirming that there is no such thing as nothingness, but that even the best vacuum is filled with energy, hence there was energy before there was space and matter. It said nothing how the laws emerged, and having multiverses just kicks the ball further down the road.

  another note about the flat , "dark matter"-caused even velocity curves in galaxies. Have they thought about the fact that there is no gravity in the center of galaxies, the earth, stars? with no gravity in the center, and max in the periphery, why would it be surprising that in a matter-filled entity, like a galaxy, the outer velocity would be high? so, to quote the video" they invented dark matter ". nothing said about the nothing before the beginning, about time itself. but a reminder if you look at the real thing, much more impressive than the video visual, kerosine - burning big bang, how small we are. thank you is all i can say.
• 
  9

  ANZAC day.

  by zeb in

  1. social
  2. current

  the 25th april in australia and new zealand is called anzac day.

  the word is from australia new zealand army corp.. on this day are commemorated the lives of those lost in war.

  the 25th april is the day in 1915 that the forces under incompetent commanders landed on the coast of turkey at a place called gallipoli or galliboli in turkish, in an effort to force turkey out of the great war.. the landings were an unmitigated blunder.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  prologos

  The heroism, the sacrifices for the delusion of Empires. Where have all the flowers gone? Abraham Martin and John?
• 
  241

  Another generation....

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

  the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

  the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  prologos

  Along with the beginning of the invisible reign of Christ, vintage 1914, the invisible war in heaven, wt tried to give the world an invisible end, it did not work, people kept dying. " The World has ended, Millions now living will never die " read the golden age.

  That was wt plan A, finishing at Armageddon. The scary part is that Plan B, the resurrection, is a comparable failing disaster, proof: The supposed 1918 resurrected anointed, the Peter Paul and Mary s, the Johns, did not help the FDS of 1919 to get their generation doctrines straight. They were not there when we needed them.
• 
  20

  Being Positive around family that are still in.

  by freddo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you are a fader or you have reduced activity markedly - say resigned as a pioneer or an elder or ms or gone inactive and still have some relationship with your immediate family or spouse - how do you stay positive around them when you feel like shaking them out of their stupor but believe deep down it would be counter productive?.

  thoughts from all most welcome..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  prologos

  I think all these interactions are golden opportunities to sow seeds to freedom from wt's preposterous promises. keep it non-confrontational--positive. upbeat. ,

  Given the simplistic mindset of most serious believers, it could be easy to subtly introduce a thought that later will trigger Eureka moments in them. humor helps too, to make it fun.
• 
  241

  Another generation....

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

  the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

  the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  prologos

  TD: yes your points refuting the wt doctrines are more detailed than my simplistic " here are the facts", and they are funny' treatment. I hope many lurkers can see the futility, the contradictions. thank you.

  : "--Any way you look at it, an "Earthly hope" is not a doctrine that can be taught longer than about a generation or so.: Yes if you a mean a generation that will never die, one generation at a time. never die 1918. never die 1935, never die 1975 -- ad infini.

  : :--allowing for the existence of "Other Sheep" in the Christian era who are not "Identical with that "great crowd"" removes that reward. Explain please ? The Christian Era is ~ 2000 years, , the Great Crowd aspirant time slot only 80-100 long. I thought wt taught that all but the anointed (about 80 per year) would be sheeplike resurrected on the Earth , like the Catholic " --I believe in the resurrection of the flesh--"?
• 
  241

  Another generation....

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

  the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

  the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  prologos

  TD: "---You have absolutely zero prospect of surviving an event you will never live to see. 100% agreement on that. here is my reasoning on wt's weird world view according to their writings:

  All members of the great crowd are Other Sheep (Earthly Hopers), but not all Other Sheep are members of the Great Crowd.

  The Great Crowd comes out of the Great Tribulation, so exists only After Armageddon. Even Abel, the quintescential OS will only be resurrected in Paradise. so: Since

  The wt "generation" is the anointed remnant, and the Other sheep by any definition exist only since John the Baptist , less than "the smallest in heaven"), There really is no great crowd now, only aspirants, while they still breathe. (pun intended). After all, they are supposed to say "Salvation we owe--" a fait accompli' -that's only for the ones that "endure to the [bitter] end".-- yet to come.--Now,

  Do you want to introduce a tentative "Great Crowd Generation" starting in 1935 ? -- that would be great too, it would dovetail with our old wt teaching that the GT started in 1014, was interrupted in 1918, to allow the Great Crowd to get out of it (and her), and then only restart at Armageddon, soon, just around the corner.. so, 1935 is better than 1914, it would give us octogenarians a fighting chance. Too bad the Forward Fred Franz overlappers will last to ~ 2075. Might my reasoning be too simplistic?

  TD: "God's infallible word depicts this group as 'coming out of the great tribulation,' being survivors of it, living right on into God's New Order without ever having to die. (Revelation. Do you see a difference between being a survivor and coming out of (without going into)?
• 
  241

  Another generation....

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

  the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

  the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  prologos

  TD: I am a deist, and I too discuss these matter only to show the inconsistencies in wt theology. Their limiting the calling, assured salvation to the sealed anointed and that over the period of 2000 years, consigns the rest of mankind to be the earthly class, the OS, the 12 tribes over which the anointed will eventually rule. That the Great Crowd are the Other Sheep, is a flaky, latter day wt invention, for most scholars agree that the Other Sheep are the Gentile Christians that followed the pattern of Cornelius. or? TD, as you well said: ---technically JWs are only "prospective" members of the Great Crowd. so: the Great Crowd is not under the "this Generation" constraint. It will appear only after "all these things have occurred," whereas the anointed overlappers will be gone before all these things happen. That is where wt contradicts Jesus.
• 
  241

  Another generation....

  by joey jojo in

  1. jw
  2. experiences

  it has been 21 years since the 1995 article that pretty much buried the idea of the '1914 generation'.. remember those guys?

  the ones born in 1914 that would still be alive when the end of the system arrived.. i'm glad i'm old enough to remember going from door to door, preaching this belief.

  the reason i say that is because i have a lot of 'still in' jw friends and family.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  prologos

  TD: "--There were no other sheep in the year, 1776, for example.) are you sure? Wt might not realize it either?

  1) An OS might be identified as one who has an earthly destiny, through resurrection or survival, and there are more deaths than 144 k in the last millennia.

  2) The sealed, anointed come out of the 12 tribes of Israel, a group that wt has consistently labelled as the earthly class. That sealing started at Pentecost , or Stephen's death, so the millions of partakers that were awaiting the New Earth, not just the heavens, by default, must be Other, earthly Sheep.or? --of course,

  If there was no Faithful and Discreet Slave during the Apostles' days, so, why would there be Other sheep?

  Van 7: "-- come out of the Great Tribulation (Revelation 7:14). However, as WT teaching dictates that the Tribulation is still future, --great point V7, but wt has admitted in wt April 15 1995, questions from readers, that the GC is described only after the GT. but Rev, say come out of , not pass through!

  The idea of deathless survival in wt teaching predates 1935 of course: " --Millions now living will never die!" wt published ca.1918. With that they predicted at least 2 million ~100 year old baptized faithful publishers, with at least 15 minutes/month reporting in 2016. wow! that's what I call confidence.
  
• 
  9

  When you were really "in", did you have a pet idea that would steer wt into divine favor?

  by prologos in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  wt writers ( klein) admitted at one time, that his majesty's doctrinal ship was zigzagging to find the right course, and many of us believed, that if we accepted the bible as true, cleaning up the teachings would establish the right bearing.

  so: did you have a hobby-horse idea you were riding?

  writing to brooklyn perhaps?

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  prologos

  Anders Andersen: "believing that 'extended talking snake tale' (lol @ that). My pet project as in the OP was to base my observation, course corrections on the belief in the bible, it being the inspired, the inerrant Word of God. well, with the creator emerging imhop as the great scientist that he/ she is, only a handful of bible references are accurate. It is truly a Spin-on of the talking snake store. without that fable, there is no original sin, no need for the ransom, paying of ransom, slaving for the Guardians Of the talking snake Doctrine. I get great satisfaction of thinking, listening to a pompous pontification from the platform, " this person really believes in talking snakes!, asses (donkeys) RNWT!"
• 
  20

  Being Positive around family that are still in.

  by freddo in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  if you are a fader or you have reduced activity markedly - say resigned as a pioneer or an elder or ms or gone inactive and still have some relationship with your immediate family or spouse - how do you stay positive around them when you feel like shaking them out of their stupor but believe deep down it would be counter productive?.

  thoughts from all most welcome..

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  prologos

  Positively show them during weekly bible reading, daily text how they have to better prepare to defend the truth. like : how do you explain the overlapping generation when you are at the doors? work to make them sharper, more knowledgeable witnesses.

  Recent text was about Moses with the wisdom of the Egyptians. Clever people those Nile Dwellers, being able to build the Pyramids, while water lapped at the peak of Mount Everest. prepare to defend your faith!