Posts by prologos

112

Are They Cynically Shutting Down The Organization?

by metatron in

jw
friends

i've raised this idea before but recent events seem to support it.

changes in the watchtower may be guided by more than a need for cash flow: they may simply be liquidating/shutting it down as discreetly as possible.. of course, this doesn't mean they stop working on their upstate ny country club - but it could mean that the throrough going exposure and disproof of their beliefs on the internet, when it emerged, took many of them by surprize, as it did many of us!

after awhile, they generally gave up trying to make any sense of their doctrines - and coupled with cash flow issues - moved towards a quiet retreat.. take a look at a few things:.

prologos

Knowing what WE here know, WTBS shutting down/collapse is TOO easy to see. The kh crowd is still smiling. I lived through the collapse of the Nazi regime, although pushed from outside, internally fanatics got even more so, kids like me given bazookas and rpgs. people hanging from lampposts with "coward" signs around their necks. The facts or reality did not matter. Or the breaching of the berlin wall, started with a stray TV announcement after a long festering exodus and breakdown. But: after 1945 there was in western occupied zones :" lastenausgleich" sharing of the loss. undamaged house were hit with a compulsory mortgage to partially help the destroyed to rebuild. plus payouts to victims of the regime. If the wtbs has as much feeling for justice, will the billion or so of assets,-- disbursed to pioneers, other fulltime workers for time of work?, not to speak of damage for lost lives, livelyhoods? --wtbs might morph instead. its coming. God will find His among the debris.

blondi: On seeing Christs presence: if localized: the planet revolves. the sun and moon are seen by all during th 24 hrs. 2) spirits have amazing spatial dimensions, reach and speed. ONE angel, in ONE night, sorted out ALL the first born of Egypt, a long country, man and beast ( so we are told). God is bigger than the universe " cant contain him" even now after 14 billion years of expansion, so would not the Son, "raised in the spirit" encompass, enshroud the earth and it would be seen?

85

Did Life Originate By Chance or Intelligent Design? Or is There a Third Option?

by JimmyPage in

jw
friends

when discussing the argument of how life originated the wt always boils it down to being chance vs. intelligent design.. no scientist in their right mind believes it happened by chance.

nor do most scientists believe that life is a product of god.. there is a solution that the wt completely ignores and that is... natural selection.. how many here who believe in a creator have honestly examined what natural selection really is?.

(i've been reading "the god delusion" by richard dawkins and was very surprised when i came to the chapter that actually mentions the watchtower society's arguments for intelligent design.

prologos

sorry to have generalized on the stable species, I was referring to that "extinct" fish known only in fossils, stone imprints, that turned up in fishermen's nets in south africa. extinction of course in not change for the better. The amber record shows a relatively stable situation in some species too. The idea of the earth beeing seeded by life from space still leaves the question of its beginning somewhere else. of course our minds are limited, but thinking of and in the material world requires work, knowledge, it requires a maker, shaper to make sense. like I said: to my mind it would give greater glory, credit to God to have created flexible, adapting, evolving, morphing species rather the "fixed model for eternity"version of fundamentalist thinking. GREAT DICUSSION not to be had at the kh.

an episode if you have time to read: we bought a computer recently: salesman a very attentive listener. A stunning galaxy was the screensaver on the disply model. my question to him: thats a great picture. what do you think did that galaxy, universe create itself? Sm:--- yeah it came by itself. I asked: do you sell any items in this store that make themselfs ? sm: no, they are factory produced. me: Isnt the universe greater, more intricate than---? and i did not proffer a "creation" book to spoil that good moment.

85

Did Life Originate By Chance or Intelligent Design? Or is There a Third Option?

by JimmyPage in

jw
friends

when discussing the argument of how life originated the wt always boils it down to being chance vs. intelligent design.. no scientist in their right mind believes it happened by chance.

nor do most scientists believe that life is a product of god.. there is a solution that the wt completely ignores and that is... natural selection.. how many here who believe in a creator have honestly examined what natural selection really is?.

(i've been reading "the god delusion" by richard dawkins and was very surprised when i came to the chapter that actually mentions the watchtower society's arguments for intelligent design.

prologos

new chapter: The point on my post was, that befor any development of material life, there had to be the material universe, and since this is site is called JW.net, it must be ok to mention that Isaiah 40 shows it exists , made from energy.

When I said pinnacle, sorry, my wrong choice of words. from a pinnacle the only way forward is down, and hopefully we will still advance. for our fundamentalist friends i suggested that it would be a better feat of creation more glory to God to make a self-developing, flexible life system, than the rigid "one model for eternity" arrangemen, although species have been stable for a long time. . every life form has its niche, but we are unique in contemplating the BIG ISSUES of time and creation, life. The bible has shaped our thinking on that, Many men and woman of great insight : newton,keppler,einstein to mention a few, were also creationists, bible researchers (well not einstein). but evelution, creation might not be an open end, that's why we have other species, stuck in what pure evolutionists must consider the past development stage.

JWs here are re-examining much of their belief system, and the BIG UNDERSTANDING: CREATION, TIME, LIFE, AWARENESS must be among those. some thoughts on that in: 'The bible on space and time" http//www.beabeorean.com

85

Did Life Originate By Chance or Intelligent Design? Or is There a Third Option?

by JimmyPage in

jw
friends

when discussing the argument of how life originated the wt always boils it down to being chance vs. intelligent design.. no scientist in their right mind believes it happened by chance.

nor do most scientists believe that life is a product of god.. there is a solution that the wt completely ignores and that is... natural selection.. how many here who believe in a creator have honestly examined what natural selection really is?.

(i've been reading "the god delusion" by richard dawkins and was very surprised when i came to the chapter that actually mentions the watchtower society's arguments for intelligent design.

prologos

ENTIRELY POSSIBLE GOLDWATER: RIGHT! THE QUESTION WAS "--ORIGINATE--" AND STILL IS. A CORPSE HAS ALL THE CHEMICALS (HARD TO SYNTISIZE) FOR LIFE, BUT IS LIFELESS, THE SPARK IS GONE, THAT VIBRANT USE OF ENERGY, THE RIDE ON THE WAVE IS OVER AT DEATH.

SO THE TWO TOWERING FACTS ARE 1) THE CREATION, ORIGIN OF THE MATERIAL UNIVERSE, ITS FLOW THROUGH TIME : ISAIH 40, AND

2) THE CREATION, ORIGIN OF LIFE: GENESIS STORY

3) THE EMERGENCE OF HUMAN CONSCIOUSNESS ABOVE THE ANIMAL MIND: THE A&E SYMBOLISM.

IT WOULD BE A MASTERSTROKE OF CREATIVITY TO MAKE POSSIBLE A SELF-DEVELOPING LIFE SYSTEM (EVOLUTION) THAT HAS US AS A PINNACLE, ALLOWING AN UNDERSTANDING MIND. IS THE CREATION ACCOUNT AS WRITTEN, TO BE UNDERSTOOD AND EXCUSED AS AN ALLEGORY FOR SIMPLER TIMES? THE 3 FACTS ARE THERE, ANY BETTER EXPLANATIONS? BLESSINGS

27

Watchtower Real Estate Fire Sale = Comfort for the Jews?

by Calebs Airplane in

has anyone noticed that all the watchtower buildings in brooklyn are (so far) being sold to real estate investment companies owned and operated by orthodox jews?

seriously, i couldnt identify one single watchtower building in brooklyn that went to a non-jewish real estate firm.. is the rothschild family finally cashing in on the initial investment they made in the watchtower at the end of the 19th century?

i have to wonder if they foresee a collapse or mass exodus in the near future and want to cash in their chips before these lose any more value..

prologos

HONEYBUCKET, : GOING INTO PROTECTIVE CASTLE WAS JUST MY PERSONAL THOUGHT AFTER REMEMBERING TO HAVE SEEN THE BROTHERS BEING EMBARRASED BY EMOTIONAL "APOSTATE" PROTESTERS ON COLUMBIA HEIGHTS, BROOKLYN NY.

MAY BE THE JEWISH COMMUNITY TRUSTS THAT REV.11:18 HOLDS, AND THAT JEHOVAH WILL NOT ALLOW MANHATTAN TO BE THE PRIME TARGET OF MAD (MUTUAL ASSURED DESTRUCTION).

THAT TEXT BY THE WAY, WAS MY REASON TO "TAKE THE TRUTH", AND RE-INVENT "SERVICE" FOR MYSELF (EVERYBODY HAS TO HEAR THIS) BEFORE EVEN BEING TOLD: "BY THE WAY: WE GO DTD.". BLESSINGS TO ALL.

17

white caps on the river

by Glander in

jw
friends

we are having a strong east wind today.

hopefully it will take off the rest of the leaves once and for all so i can rake them for the last time in 2012.. i walked down to the marina and the sailboats in our little harbor are rocking.

i love the bell like sound of their rigging slapping against the masts and the seagulls are sitting tight.. the columbia flows from east to west towards the pacific.

prologos

GLANDER, IF YOU WERE A GANDER, IMAGINE THE LIFT YOU WOULD GET IN FRONT OF THAT WAVE CLOUD. FULFILLING ISAIAH 40;31 LITERALLY. ONE OF THE GIFTS OF GOD TO ENJOY. BLESSINGS

24

Has the WT ever apologized for changing their stance on something?

by Left in the Cold in

i'm in the middle of reading coc.

it's very eye opening.

but on thinking about how the gb finally changed their stance on allowing civil service instead of prison when a christian was face with military service, it makes me wonder if the wt ever apologizes for any reversal of beliefs it imposes?

prologos

AFTER 75 AT THE DISTRICT ASSEMBLIES THEY SAID IN A TALK " WE REGRETTED TO HAVE PUBLISHED THAT" OF COURSE! BECAUSE IT WAS ANOTHER CASE OF LACK OF VALID BIBLE RESEARCH. REALLY REGRETTABLE.

BLONDI: GOOD POINTS WELL EXPRESSED. IN 1958 I DROVE A FORMER NAZI CONCENTRATION CAMP SURVIVOR FROM NY CITY TO GILEAD IN UPSTATE ON THE WAY HOME. HE MENTIONED THAT ONE BIG PROBLEM WAS THE "SUPERIOR AUTHORITY" ISSUE, NOT CLEAR TO THESE ISOLATED BROTHERS. YET THEY WENT TO THEIR DEATH AND ENDURED UNSPEAKABLE CONDITIONS IN LOYALTY TO GOD AND CHRIST. SO LETS DO OUR BEST AND TAKE WHAT IS FINE FROM THE SPIRITUAL FOOD AVAILABLE FROM ALL THOSE THAT REALLY PROVIDE IT. BLESSINGS

41

What I think about the "We just love this idea" of David Splane

by Gorbatchov in

jw
friends

the jw.org video about the annual meeting contains david splane saying "we just love this idea", when talking about the adjusted fds doctrine.

"we just love this idea"????

when it becomes one of the fundament teachings of the organisational part of a religion, the rank-and-file witnesses are expected to be convinced about these kind of doctrines.

prologos

How can you dignify something that does not yet exixt? The great crowd "COMES OUT OF" the great tribulation not -THROUGH- it. We used to betold-believe that the great tribulation started in 1914, was interrupted to allow the great crowd to be created and GT to resume at the big A and so the GC could COME OUT of the GT. BUT the GC is an artifact of the GT. A crowd is disorganized as you would expect after the greatest disaster to strike the planet. IS the org of OS disorganized? A suggestion to toss around: The great crowd is the 12 tribes of the Israel of God minus - the 144 000 that are united with Christ in heaven, and they are not neatly grouped by 12 000s after that bad day. to quote Pauli, This prosed "dignified" is so bad, it is not even wrong! beabeoren.com blessings

25

Out with a bang or Fade

by Honeybucket in

what did you decide to do?.

leave with a bang, trying to educate those around you before leaving?

perhaps writing letters to others forgiving/ asking for forgiveness.. or.

prologos

What were the exit strategies of Jesus, Isaiah, Jeremia? do good and let them do their thing. it will be told at the end.

27

Watchtower Real Estate Fire Sale = Comfort for the Jews?

by Calebs Airplane in

has anyone noticed that all the watchtower buildings in brooklyn are (so far) being sold to real estate investment companies owned and operated by orthodox jews?

seriously, i couldnt identify one single watchtower building in brooklyn that went to a non-jewish real estate firm.. is the rothschild family finally cashing in on the initial investment they made in the watchtower at the end of the 19th century?

i have to wonder if they foresee a collapse or mass exodus in the near future and want to cash in their chips before these lose any more value..

prologos

Having seen the jewish people being forced to wear the yellow star (a place to aim at), it is natural that they would like to huddle for safety, a short walk to the trading floor. The real storey is the GB going into the wilds, surrounded by lakes and swamps so as to exclude unwelcome visitors bearing grudges if not pitchforks. Me, being scared of bombs, would have gone out of ground zero into the boondocks not later than 1948. also, as succesfully tested in october, you can do your business on the internet, hidden somewhere, surrounded by a moat. beabeoren!blessings