the following comment taken from the march 1st 2013 watchtower, is nothing new.
to witnesses the world over it's a basic teaching which even the kids understand; "humans with heavenly prospects have been baptized in water and with holy spirit and are thus spirit-begotten disciples of jesus.
" (john 3:3, 5) (both at the same time??????).
this is both an emotionally loaded and scripturally technical problem. did not some try to bribe themselfs into the GIFTS of the spirit?Jesus received the spirit right after baptism. Cornelius for the not so obvious reason to convince Peter received the GIFTs of the spirit BEFORE baptism! may be after DEDICATION?
May be the scecialists can hammer this out .
anything worth doing is worth doing right.. i'm sure you've heard that old saying.. .
i live with my cousin debbie and her husband bobby.. let me tell you about bobby!.
when he puts something together there are parts left over.
hamsterbait. right on. it might be even shown that seminal advances in any field were achieved by those that were able to free themselfs or were free of the ingrained teachings, doctrines of the establishment, who after all are mostly interested to maintain the status quo.
modern example: how IBM was leapfrogged by geniusses working in their garages, well lit basements.
it is happening here for the WT BtS
considering the recent major doctrinal changes in relation to the generation and to the faithful and discreet slave which other doctrines do you think they will have to change?.
generation changea time and too many of the anointed dying.
f&dsa anointed growing in number so necessary to blow that out of the water by completely centralising power in the gb.
already touched on by previous posts: let them pick a card from the shaking swaying doctrinal edifice that is at the top:
the two - tier membership as seen at THE MEMORIAL.
already really, anyone can partake (Provided the refill bottle is kept under the table) but right now you have to declare yourself to
a) believe in wt doctrine and
b) declare yourself to be of the 144 000, deluded, mentaly unbalanced, deceived by past BG beliefs. so why not make it officialand
let all partake? no questions asked? John chapter 6.
That way, wt can blame the R&F as they usually do, no official doctrines have to be changed--yet, the doctrinal card-house can keep swaying for a while.
If the army chaplin can put a wafer on the tongue of a dying soldier, that change is the least the wt can do for the fading, no-good slave porclaimers.
just came across an interesting study.
during brain scans, when people were asked how they felt about something, the same part of the brain was active as when they were asked how god felt about something.
when asked how other people felt about something, however, a different part of the brain was at work.. specifically, the portion of the brain that was active when asking people how god felt about things was the portion of the brain associated with self-referential thinking.... people are literally making god up in their own image as they go.
EP:-- atheists dont believe in god(s) what is there to test?
EP: Atheists would provide a very revealing scan. it can be seen how the idea of the god-perception is showing up in the "self" part of the brain. So we know the pattern. Since Atheist have eliminate the god part, what substitutes ideas do they project into the "self"? abstract concepts? agression? vindication?, domination? vengence? justice? caring? compassion? foresight in providing for offspring? these are qualties that religions project into their Gods.
One person that spoke his mind had his "God" writing laws of physics and he felt sorry for his god (lord) if these laws were at variance.
He also felt that his God (lord) was not a gambler. so, it happens to better people than us.
quote: " is god a mathematician? "I hope not!"
just came across an interesting study.
during brain scans, when people were asked how they felt about something, the same part of the brain was active as when they were asked how god felt about something.
when asked how other people felt about something, however, a different part of the brain was at work.. specifically, the portion of the brain that was active when asking people how god felt about things was the portion of the brain associated with self-referential thinking.... people are literally making god up in their own image as they go.
EP thank you. it would explain how closely people all over identify with "god". It is never further away then their ego mindset.
It is devastating for the true wt believers to have in their minds "god" destroying their enenies in 1914, 25, 39, 75, Double generation Armageddon.
its easy to see an engineer, builder refering to his creator "god". but what mental leap ( lobotomy?) is required to not make that automatic switch to the god=self connection? Have they tested atheists in this context?
EP: it is not EPS, its IN our minds.
jesus set the pattern of humility.
on earth, jehovah god exalted his.
pattern of humility?
BLondie: thank you. again on wt question par.11: John 10:16 -- it is significant that you put your coment in the form of a question. Watson too in a way.
Jesus said in --John 10:16-- that the OTHER SHEEP are "-- not of this FOLD--" what was the --"FOLD"-- in that context ?: The nation of Israel. like you indicated as a question:
The OTHER SHEEP are the non-Jewish Christians starting with Cornelius. All Christians always were one flock never two. and
Here is the interesting story of the unraveling of the WT BtS two-tier doctrine:
Wt taught for a while that BY 1934-35 their 144 000 strong christian congregation was complete. Therefore the new converts had to be non-christians! so:
they ignored Jesus John 10:16 comment about the "ONE FLOCK" and came up with the idea od "THE OTHER SHEEP, Earthly class, Jonadabs, in the "GREAT CROWD" of 1934-5. but
--WHen they had to CANCEL the date 1934 as the complete end of the SEALING of their congregation of 144 000, and move it to Armageddon (as Rev 7says),
it left the BEGINNING of their "earthly class, Other Sheep, great crowd" concept still in 1934-1935!!. what is wrong here?
the amazing answer is in Re.7 1-8 where the 144 000 are shown to be sealed --"OUT of-- OUT of--Out of-- " the 12 tribes of the ISRAEL (of God).
That sealing will stop at Armageddon not 1934
But when did it start? 1919? If These "1000 year tenure" kings include the slaughtered martyrs described in Rev. 20:4 ,then
this sealing started BEFORE Stephen the first recorded martyr. It started at Pentecost 33CE! but
according to WT BtS, new "annointed" ones come OUT OF the "Other sheep class". so:
THERE WAS a so called "earthly class" in existence all along! but it was not the wt defined "other sheep" but all of the anointed Christian congregation that was awaiting a new "heavens and a new earth".
Of all the anointed, and that is all of the believers*, only 144 000 will rule as kings. All believers should take the bread and wine. to sum up:
1) Other Sheep (gentile Christians) too, have heavenly POTENTIAL and started in 036 with Cornelius.
2) 144 000 are incognito among all Christians and started not later than STEPHEN.
3) all Cristians shall partake of the Bread and Wine and thereby have everlasting life to be resurrected in the last day John 6.
Par.11 of tomorrows' Wt ignored these bible based reasonings and served only to reinforce erroneous wt doctrine by repetion propaganda.
* non-believers we are listening to your arguments and it all will work out well. thank you.
i'm currently dealing with some very religious jw family members and this has led to several "debates" (i hate to use the term debate, since it's more of a one-sided argument where they do nothing but reference watchtower publications, but whatever).. gotta be careful in what i'm about to ask, since there's been quite a bit of turmoil on here whenever there is a religion vs. science sort of discussion.
i've searched on past threads as this topic has come up but haven't received any real answers one way or another.
just lots of fighting.
thank you both. I did not argue or imply belief in literal A&E or literal world- wide flood. Just the idea that a creationist religious? could live with the established genetic record of the races orgin and spread.
entirely possible: just for the sake of friendly argument: why do you say your typical terse "NO" to the possibility of one couple starting over again after surviving a wipeout? Even if jgnat knows there were more than two?
Take my case (hyothetical ): I come from the area smack in the middle the furthest reach of the slavic thrust west on one hand and the saxon -scandinavian -viking expansion on the other. . my wife (the anti-pode) is from the end tip arrow of one of the most geneticly diverse area in the orient with late spanish-american -japanese influence, but she is half chinese. it does not get much better than that. (Goebbel's nightmare) falcon. So: with inbreeding at the absolute minimum, why would the two of us not be a reasonable start after that super volcano or asteroid strike? or two omnivour shrews with food supply after the death of the dinosaurs?
to wit: there are some jws that I know in congregations in Houston TX, Huntsville AL , the space coast FL , Martin Marietta works that somehow sequester the bible fables in their minds and are fervent creationists, because they have to work to make things work. The mechanics? of human developments (which was the topic here) do not negate the 50% chance of creation vs the other possibility.
i'm currently dealing with some very religious jw family members and this has led to several "debates" (i hate to use the term debate, since it's more of a one-sided argument where they do nothing but reference watchtower publications, but whatever).. gotta be careful in what i'm about to ask, since there's been quite a bit of turmoil on here whenever there is a religion vs. science sort of discussion.
i've searched on past threads as this topic has come up but haven't received any real answers one way or another.
just lots of fighting.
entirely possible: thank you for correcting me, obviously I need and do not mind correcting. I do not defend the bible fables, but believe that one can be a creationist religious? and be impressed by, and embrace , scientific evidence. to praphrase Barry GW: "persistence in belief in creation processes is no vice".
to shorten my foray into this well researched domain:
the races did not come into existence by lust , no, by
wanderlust.
i'm currently dealing with some very religious jw family members and this has led to several "debates" (i hate to use the term debate, since it's more of a one-sided argument where they do nothing but reference watchtower publications, but whatever).. gotta be careful in what i'm about to ask, since there's been quite a bit of turmoil on here whenever there is a religion vs. science sort of discussion.
i've searched on past threads as this topic has come up but haven't received any real answers one way or another.
just lots of fighting.
jgnat: thank you for the free diagnosis. yes, we can thank all the scholars for their detailed work and it is amazing how humans travelled, may be they fought a lot and were forever escaping conflict . look at canada burgeoning refugee program. The Eurasian reference was not about priorities, only about the present location of the great "FIND" of the gene hunters. thank you all for the learning experiences here.
i'm currently dealing with some very religious jw family members and this has led to several "debates" (i hate to use the term debate, since it's more of a one-sided argument where they do nothing but reference watchtower publications, but whatever).. gotta be careful in what i'm about to ask, since there's been quite a bit of turmoil on here whenever there is a religion vs. science sort of discussion.
i've searched on past threads as this topic has come up but haven't received any real answers one way or another.
just lots of fighting.
entirely possible : assuming there was one first "hu-man" somewhere and one first "wo-man" somewhere and they met and bred , but there was an extinction later - would not one surviving male and female be able to start again? they probable would be really attracted to each other huddling in a volcanic winter. but it is just my conjecture.
sorry for the lack of references. read the book "The 5 daughters of EVE"?
the man with the most common male genes was in a NOVA program I believe. He did not look like anything we see in the magnificant specimen in the Olympics. thank you.
