Posts by everchangingworld

68

need to talk/vent. wifey wt problems

by unstopableravens in

my wife ask me if im going to make up the assmebly, i reminder her that i in clean conscience can not go anymore,as soon as the word anymore came out the tears started flooding.

it hurts me to see her like this.

i talked to her calm trying to explain why i cant worship with doctrine that is so clearly wrong.

everchangingworld

Raven, I feel for you (and for your wife). When I came out and told my mate that I no longer believed in the org., I saw him shed tears for the second time in our 7 year marriage (the first time was at a family member's funeral). It broke my heart. He asked me if I would still do family worship with him. We were hard core JWs (both had been clocking 70 hrs/month, "need greatering" - it really was our entire life).

I ended up going to the meetings with him anyway. It was nauseating, but I wanted to meet him part way, so I kept going on the condition that I could keep asking questions about my doubts. (This might not work in reverse, since I know he felt he was the "spiritual head" and would have to "help" me, but it worked for me. After every meeting and during every "family worship" session, I asked MANY questions. I was careful not to say anything negative about the GB/org, only questions about how do we know Jesus picked them/where's the proof. A few months later he was out with me. Not saying it would work for everyone, but I think had I attacked the GB while he was still a believer, I would have messed it up.

Wish you the best.

17

any ex-jw's in southern ontario, canada? Toronto, Barrie?

by slimk in

jw
friends

hi everyone, i'm new to this forum, and somewhat new to being out of the org [in recovery mode at present], and i'm looking to meet some fellow ex-jw's in person.

now that i'm "out" making new friends has proven to be a bit tricky since i'm a tad socially stunted due to my past.

btw i'm a guy in my late 20's..

everchangingworld

Lived (and pioneered) in Toronto for over a decade, but not living there now. Left on doctrinal grounds, mostly. I know quite a few others that have left that are still in TO. Feel free to PM me.

88

Minimus' Post Gave Me Courage To Finally Post My Questions, New Here

by toweragent in

i have been "lurking" for about four years now.. it was an incredibly weird experience just to look at a site like jwn or freeminds.

he came off very loving.. so, i decided that i would talk to one of my elders about the things i read.

if any of you have time to read this, thank you.

everchangingworld

@unstopableravens and @DubR, it might be best to take this kind of debate on a new thread. The issue here is a person trying to sort our their beliefs on the WT. Had I read your back and forth a year ago when I started having my own crisis of faith, I would have been more confused and probably would have hoped even more that the WT was right. Just saying.

88

Minimus' Post Gave Me Courage To Finally Post My Questions, New Here

by toweragent in

i have been "lurking" for about four years now.. it was an incredibly weird experience just to look at a site like jwn or freeminds.

he came off very loving.. so, i decided that i would talk to one of my elders about the things i read.

if any of you have time to read this, thank you.

everchangingworld

I had similar thoughts. I started thinking that maybe the org and the leaders weren't as perfect as I had once thought, but that there was still evidence that God was using them. What I saw as "evidence" was: the preaching work, the global scope of the organization, and some of the basic teachings that at the time I thought were much more biblical that other "christian" religions.

Before I started researching the history of JWs, I started comparing other religions outside of WT materials. I found that there wasn't much to set JWs apart, because the others also seemed to back up their teachings to scriptures, and some taught basically the same stuff as witnesses (no hell fire, no soul that lives on after death, etc.

This is pretty interesting on JWfacts: http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/similar-religions-to-jehovahs-witnesses.php

So in the end, they isn't much that makes the JWs that different. It left me thinking that there is absolutely zero evidence they are the group "chosen" by Christ or God.

88

Minimus' Post Gave Me Courage To Finally Post My Questions, New Here

by toweragent in

i have been "lurking" for about four years now.. it was an incredibly weird experience just to look at a site like jwn or freeminds.

he came off very loving.. so, i decided that i would talk to one of my elders about the things i read.

if any of you have time to read this, thank you.

everchangingworld

Welcome!

I can totally relate to the feeling of "wanting" it to be true!

I was in my 30s when I realized I had to face some major doubts - but I was really scared. I didn't see how life outside the organization could have any meaning.

Without what I had always thought was truth, life seemed empty, a dark hole. I didn't want to lose my friends either. I had been pioneering since high school - I didn't want all those sacrifices to have been for nothing. BUT I couldn't ignore my doubts. If the org. wasn't God's channel, I needed to know so that I could live the rest of my life accordingly. I was also terrified of what it would mean for my marriage - my husband was an elder and pioneer.

Anyway, I wish you the best. Take your time to do research. Don't be afraid of what you find. To have to constantly reconcile every thought is exhausting - I have found that having to start my belief system from scratch was much easier.

Have you looked at the book "Combatting Cult Mind Control" by Steve Hassan? It might be an interesting exercise to see parallels between JWs and many other religions/groups.

159

Believers, do you believe in evolution?

by everchangingworld in

after leaving, i still couldn't wrap my head around evolution (after the years of seing "intelligent design" in everything around me).. there's a series of videos that give a good intro to evolution and critical thinking.

they've probably been posted here before, but, for any new members, these are worth watching.. evolution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdddbyilel0.

critical thinking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6olpl5p0fmg.

everchangingworld

"I'm of the position that everything that lives is and has a soul. "

Parasites have souls?

159

Believers, do you believe in evolution?

by everchangingworld in

after leaving, i still couldn't wrap my head around evolution (after the years of seing "intelligent design" in everything around me).. there's a series of videos that give a good intro to evolution and critical thinking.

they've probably been posted here before, but, for any new members, these are worth watching.. evolution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdddbyilel0.

critical thinking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6olpl5p0fmg.

everchangingworld

Do cockroaches have souls? Rats?

49

30 and Out?

by Black Man in

jw
friends

30 that seems to put jw's at a cross-roads?

i've known so many who have decided to abandon ship at either the age of 30 or either after 30 years of being baptized.

i fall into the former category.

everchangingworld

I also was already married.

159

Believers, do you believe in evolution?

by everchangingworld in

after leaving, i still couldn't wrap my head around evolution (after the years of seing "intelligent design" in everything around me).. there's a series of videos that give a good intro to evolution and critical thinking.

they've probably been posted here before, but, for any new members, these are worth watching.. evolution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdddbyilel0.

critical thinking: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6olpl5p0fmg.

everchangingworld

I am really curious to know what is the basis for believing that humans have a soul separate from the body. Is it just a hunch?

9

Advice and Experiences, Please...

by DarioKehl in

i've had a rough time lately with my jw relatives.

they are aware of my spiritually weakened condition and have known about my doubts for some time.

i would like to hear your experiences about "coming out" to your loved ones.

everchangingworld

It could go either way.

In my case, I expressed my arguments in a similar way as you did (although I did also address some WT inconsistencies like 607, which may have been the trigger, but they did still send elders to my place. I was able to wiggle out of it, but I know many well-meaning JWs who think that their own doubts are due to their own weaknesses, and if they don't have a good enough argument to refute yours, then the elders will, because, after all, this is the "truth".

I wanted to be honest with my family, so I don't necessarily regret having been honest with them about my non-beliefs (I think that with my personality, I would be tormented if I couldn't be honest with them about this), but I somehow think that our relationship would be slightly better off if I had never said anything. That way, they can just believe that I was discouraged/stumbled, instead of having "apostate" thinking, which is scarier and dangerous for a JW, even one who is doubting.

They probably won't turn you in, but they might spread to elders that you have "doubts", which raises huge alarm bells. My family still refers to my non belief as "doubts". Evidence is irrelevant to a JW.