Posts by Saintbertholdt

24

Another Shocking clip From JW Australia Royal investigation Elder would not report MURDER

by Watchtower-Free in

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nfj1ecde5fy.

Saintbertholdt

"Another Shocking clip From JW Australia Royal investigation Elder would not report MURDER"

ah hahahahahahahahaha. oh ohohohoh. Ha hahahahahaha.

When I was a JW my opinion was that secular laws always superseded ANY church body's opinion. My only exceptions were blood and military service because in my mind they were well defined issues and I felt I could make a reasonable defense if I ever was challenged in a court of law. I had debates with brothers and sisters about criminal offences and what the elders authority in these matters were. My opinion was that they had no authority.

So thank you Jehoober for never making me an elder. It would have meant my IQ would have dropped by 40+ points making me a vegetable like the Elder from this video.

...Elder would not report murder. ah hahahahahhaha. oh hahahahahaha my sides.

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

Saintbertholdt

Hi Orphancrow,

The WTS has to stand on their old, outdated judical law. If they started to dismantle the "two witness rule" and those archaic laws they follow

If they do stand on that law, they're pretty much done for financially. The lawsuits will just keep on coming.

Secular law has the moral high ground and will destroy them without anybody batting an eye. Now the WT can kick and scream all they want, they will have to obey to survive. The GB are such ill equipped dinosaurs. If they just applied their own dusty books counsel:

"And if anyone forces you to go one mile, go with him two."

104

Do you feel vindicated by the exposure of the WT Society in Australia? It seems like a feeding frenzy on here! I love it. You?

by Wasanelder Once in

are you pleased with the exposure of the society in australia?

do you feel personally vindicated by it?

do you think it gives you credibility with others now that all the things you said were going on, actually are documented?

Saintbertholdt

truthseeker10012 hours ago

I would feel a lot better if it were the GB themselves answering the questions to this Royal Commission.

I think the UK will follow suit with the Charity commission.

Then its the USA's turn.

34

FMF Rant on Abuse and JW Apologists: The Single Root of the Whole Issue(s)

by freemindfade in

for the jw apologists, they debate certain factors to down play all the recent sex abuse information in the jehovah's witness organization.

and there is so much focus on "two witness rule" and "parents can report" the "elders aren't legal authorities" and many other smoke screen issues.

a lot of these issues and discussion are down stream from what i believe to be the root of the issue.

Saintbertholdt

Why don't the Elders have judicial committees on murder cases?

Because its a criminal offence.

First phone the police, then phone your clergy.

Why don't the Elders have judicial committees on assault cases?

Because its a criminal offence.

First phone the police, then phone your clergy.

1. Rape and molestation are also criminal offences.

First phone the police, then phone your clergy.

2. Every citizen in every civilized country has the duty to report a matter which they think may be a criminal offense and that has gone unreported. Its that simple.

40

Is the two-witness rule really unreasonable?

by stillin in

i'm picturing a situation in which a savvy 12 year old doesn't like the house rules that mom's new husband has put into place.

or something along that line.

i can certainly agree that protection of children is paramount, but who protects the real victim in those cases?

Saintbertholdt

Elders in congregations should advise all victims to report their cases to the authorities. They should follow up with the victims and their families on the status regularly. They should NOT take any child abuse cases BEFORE the authorities have not been notified and the investigation completed. Based upon the outcome of the secular investigations they can then make decisions regarding the accused standing. While the person is under investigation they should impose boundaries on the accused such as not having bible studies with minors and asking them to voluntarily suspend any congregational privileges (This should be voluntary and not an imposed suspension unless there is a clear indication of wrongdoing). Even if the authorities clear an individual, the elders could then still impose certain boundaries, such as not having bible studies with minors unless a second baptized witness is present or handing over those studies to another witness, if they feel uncertain. They should ask the accused to limit their interaction with minors in the congregational setting until they are cleared. It could be argued to the accused that it protects them, the congregation and the victims of child abuse.

10

DOES "ABSTAIN FROM BLOOD" really mean "Do not murder?"

by TerryWalstrom in

20:28 - jesus' shed blood, thus related to murder.

with the words of augustine firmly in mind we now ask this important question:.

abstaining from blood(shed) preserves life!

Saintbertholdt

Hi cofty,

Read the posts.

Leviticus 11:39, 40 :)

Does the GB know about the new light?

18

Need Help! JW Grandmother (may be) Going to Court for Visitation

by Expanded-Mind in

jw
friends

i am hoping someone may be able to give me some guidance on behalf of my son.

my ex-wife, who remains a jw, is threatening to go to court to get visitation with our 5 year old grandchild.

she had regular visits with our grandchild, but when my son (no longer a jw) and his wife (never a jw) found out that his mother was teaching their daughter the jw religion without their permission and even telling our grandchild not to tell their parents... well to say the least, that was a game-changer.

Saintbertholdt

My 2 cent prognostication,

Well I would ask your ex-wife what she thought would happen if the court found out that she was using her visitation rights primarily for religious instruction in a faith contrary to the child's upbringing? This is based on the information that has already been related by your grandchild that this was the case.

Why don't you suggest keeping this out of the courts and giving your ex supervised visitation to start with, and if she plays ball and when a trust relationship has been established over some months, she might be allowed to re-establish sleep overs etc. on the proviso that faith based discussions are off limits. If the trust is violated after this agreement she then will have to go to court.

If she really loves your grandchild enough she would probably agree to the idea.

36

Going to a bad place when i die

by 060702015 in

i've thought and said too much to ever gain jehovahs forgiveness and love if i want to be a christian again.

i made a topic on my unforgivable sin and blaspemy of the holy spirit.. i feel saddness everyday having no relationship with god, no religion and fear of the afterlife.

even when i was kid i feared death and the end of the world.

Saintbertholdt

060702015,

"I've thought and said too much to ever gain Jehovahs forgiveness and love if I want to be a Christian again."

According to what I've learned from the Bible, you can't really say too much to be forgiven by God. That goes for the JW God and the traditional Christian God. Unless you're Judas Iscariot you're pretty much safe.

I made a topic on my unforgivable sin and blaspemy of the holy spirit.

Well I read your unforgivable sin and I can wholeheartedly say in my opinion that you are NOT a son/daughter of destruction. If God took offense at your forum post he would not be God but be a petty child. And if you believe in the New Testament God he would not do such a thing. Now the Old Testament God is another story, but I digress...

I feel saddness everyday having no relationship with God, no religion And FEAR OF THE AFTERLIFE.

Well if a relationship with God is what you really desire then that is what you should pursue.
Even when I was kid I feared death and the end of the world. I use to pray that I would get cancer and die before Jehovah destroyed the earth so I couldnt see it I would be too scared.
Um, I thought Jehovah would NOT destroy the earth, just the wicked. I might be wrong, I haven't been to the Kingdom hall in years so it might be new light. When I was a kid I used to pray to be preserved through Armageddon because I did not want to die. I always imagined it like the Israelite pass over. I imagined the Angels would just make a 'wicked' persons heart stop, no pain or anything. Then we would collect and bury the bodies for seven years while thanking God for not annihilating us.

I envy other JWs who grew up in a decent home with mentally stable JWs and are now living life happily as JWs. My brother is the only nice Jehovah Witness in my family.
Mentally stable JW homes are rarer than you think. I grew up in a divided home which made for very interesting debates. Perhaps I should rephrase that: interesting fights. If your brother is nice then rejoice that you have someone who you can relate to.

But when I was a kid I had the hope of paradise. Now I have no hope. None.

Well you could stop worrying too much about the next life and focus on your current one.

Be a caring person.

Pursue your passion.

Make a difference.

...

The worst thing I ever did was to leave the Jehovah's Witnesses while still believing that the religion was correct. Many years later I would return to the religion and after a few years realized I had been lied to my entire life. After I left I was very sad but also liberated. Leaving the JW's while still believing really clouds your judgement.

You can always:

1. Return to the JW's if you want to and it really makes you happy. (I know this is forum heresy, but some people just need to be JW's)

2. Figure out which other religion or denomination is the one that makes the most sense. For example: If you fear the afterlife you could always look at teachings like Christian Universalism.

3. Leave religion alone for a while and just live your life as an individual trying to make a difference, enjoying life and being a well rounded individual. God would understand if you needed some time, otherwise he wouldn't be God and wouldn't be loving.

4. Become an atheist (like me) and still try to do number 3.

5. Seek professional help to assist you through your difficult time.

6. Rejoin the JW's and then claim to be one of the anointed while secretly mailing 'New Light' in the form of Scientology brochures to the Governing Body in Brooklyn.

7. Relax and go make some tea.

You can do some/all/none of the above at any time during your lifetime.

I think I might consider doing point number 6 (and 7) in the near future...

16

Russell v Russell: the 1908 court transcript

by Londo111 in

does anyone know how to obtain a copy?.

i have poked around pennsylvania websites, attempting to figure out how to obtain the transcript, but recently, i have it on good authority that the transcript went missing from the pennsylvania archives over 30 years ago.

it is likely that there is vested interest (jws, bible students) to keep this hidden..

Saintbertholdt

Hi Londo111,

If you get a reply, would you post a web link if it is online somewhere?

I do seem to remember I read vast tracts of the transcript many years ago. I think it was in pdf format if I'm not mistaken. I should have downloaded it.

SB

25

Did you know that President Jimmy Carter used to be a Jehovah's Witness?

by AndersonsInfo in

jw
friends

http://www.christianpost.com/news/jimmy-carter-says-jesus-would-not-support-abortion-revealing-only-conflict-between-his-politics-and-christian-faith-141881/.

carter said that as a young man he used to be a jehovah's witness before he was a baptist christian.. .

"it's hard to grow up with such a foundational system and just let it go.

Saintbertholdt

Hi Simon,

Unfortunately the Carter JW connection is bogus.

See Breakfast of Champions post and the rest.