Saintbertholdt

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Posts by Saintbertholdt

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  66

  What Should the Minimum Wage Be (USA)?

  by Village Idiot in

  1. social
  2. current

  during the gop debates donald trump said that american’s “wages [are] too high” and later said “that having a low minimum wage is not a bad thing for this country” (7:25)..

  do you agree and if so why?.

  my two cents on this issue; do the math.

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  Saintbertholdt

  Equating it with a loaded phrase like "social engineering" is an attempt to thwart the necessity of having enough money to sustain you. I've been talking about basic rent and food.

  So if you think that I'm using loaded language with Social Engineering, I'll abandon it.I do think it has merit though: LoveUniHateExams pointed to the United Kingdoms situation. If you look at the politics and economics of the UK in the 1970s and 80s it is a good example of social engineering by the left and the right, with its advantages and its foibles.
  

  Ok let me put it another way: What is the real minimum wage? Zero. Irrespective of minimum wage laws. If you're not working you're earning the real minimum wage, which is nothing. Which is worse: Living out of your car or living out of a cardboard box?

  That could be used to rationalize no minimum wage the result of which being that the unemployed may be employed while living out of his car (if any).

  True. Its my concern as well. I have to point out though that our concern is actually not borne out by the facts.

  From the text again: "Europe’s unemployment rates shot up when such government-mandated benefits to be paid for by employers grew sharply during the 1980s and 1990s. In Germany, such benefits accounted for half of the average labor cost per hour. By comparison, such benefits accounted for less than one-fourth the average labor costs per hour in Japan and the United States. Average hourly compensation of manufacturing employees in the European Union countries in general is higher than in the United States or Japan. So is unemployment."

  So what does one want then? Low unemployment or a better quality of life for those employed?

  It seems that you cannot have both, unless I am mistaken.
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  66

  What Should the Minimum Wage Be (USA)?

  by Village Idiot in

  1. social
  2. current

  during the gop debates donald trump said that american’s “wages [are] too high” and later said “that having a low minimum wage is not a bad thing for this country” (7:25)..

  do you agree and if so why?.

  my two cents on this issue; do the math.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  Which is considered to be a Socialistic way of doing things.

  Sure. But isn't minimum wage doing the same thing?

  Let me quote from a well known Economic text (Basic Economics - Sowell): "A belated recognition of the connection between minimum wage laws and unemployment by government officials has caused some countries to allow their real minimum wage levels to be eroded by inflation, avoiding the political risks of trying to repeal these laws explicitly, when so many voters think of such laws as being beneficial to workers. These laws are in fact beneficial to those workers who continue to be employed—those who are on the inside looking out, but at the expense of the unemployed who are on the outside looking in."

  The economist view is that the minimum wage is generally a bad thing, but I've not bought into the notion entirely, but as our discussion is progressing I am starting to see some merit in the abandoning of a minimum wage (except to prevent extreme exploitation).

  I come back to the following thought: Isn't using minimum wage to ensure a specific lifestyle a form of social engineering? Is social engineering a good idea?

  
  
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  66

  What Should the Minimum Wage Be (USA)?

  by Village Idiot in

  1. social
  2. current

  during the gop debates donald trump said that american’s “wages [are] too high” and later said “that having a low minimum wage is not a bad thing for this country” (7:25)..

  do you agree and if so why?.

  my two cents on this issue; do the math.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  There is a country that has no minimum wage no welfare system and no medical programs where peoples money is being taxed to pay for it all. It called Somalia.

  Just for interest, five countries with no enforced minimum wage, instead relying on collective bargaining:

  Sweden, Denmark, Iceland, Norway and Switzerland

  
  
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  4

  Evolution is a Fact #13 - Morris Minor Bonnets

  by cofty in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  every brit of a certain age can recognise a morris minor by the iconic shape of its bonnet.

  what most don't realise is that when alec issigonis designed the car in 1948 he had a last minute change of mind.

  he realised it looked too narrow.

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  Saintbertholdt

  When I use the odd cotton ear bud (I understand one shouldn't?) and I dig too deep in my ear, I start coughing.

  I understand I'm tickling my Vagus nerve. Weird.
• 
  66

  What Should the Minimum Wage Be (USA)?

  by Village Idiot in

  1. social
  2. current

  during the gop debates donald trump said that american’s “wages [are] too high” and later said “that having a low minimum wage is not a bad thing for this country” (7:25)..

  do you agree and if so why?.

  my two cents on this issue; do the math.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Saintbertholdt

  As for your pencil analogy you have left out the cost of employing the producer which takes us right back to the issue.

  If you mean by producer, it encompasses the tool manufacturers, the architects, engineers, technicians, miners, lumber jacks, supervisors, accountants and ALL the labor involved, and not just the factory floor worker though.

  Floods are a natural force that's why cities are designed with drainage and flood control channels.

  See: Dutch Watersnoodramp 1953 - And they're some pretty darn good engineers when it comes to dykes.

  
  
  
  

  
  
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  66

  What Should the Minimum Wage Be (USA)?

  by Village Idiot in

  1. social
  2. current

  during the gop debates donald trump said that american’s “wages [are] too high” and later said “that having a low minimum wage is not a bad thing for this country” (7:25)..

  do you agree and if so why?.

  my two cents on this issue; do the math.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  And how would such a mystical force do any correcting?

  You seem to think the market is not a natural force. Let me explain:

  Pick up a normal everyday item like a pencil. It consists of parts like a wooden casing, some paint, carbon on the inside, a rubber eraser on its back end, a metal holder for the eraser.

  You buy this item for a negligible amount.

  Now here's the trick: How much would it cost you to make one from total scratch on your own?

  One dollar? Ten dollars? A hundred dollars?

  It would actually cost millions of dollars.

  Here's another trick: No one knows the manufacturing process of that pencil from end to end in its entirety.

  From the wood being cut, to it being treated, the chemical composition of the paint, the processes involved in the manufacture of the base materials. That simple item encompasses the ingenuity and force of our entire civilization.

  Think about it for a while: The market is a natural force, like the ocean, like hurricanes or any other great natural phenomena you can think of.

  When humans intervene in the market through legislation like a minimum wage, one better know what one is doing because one could end up with unintended consequences. I'm not saying that it cannot be done, the Dutch have been keeping the Atlantic ocean at bay for a very long time, but what I am saying is that when you choose to impose limits on the market you better have thought this through thoroughly.

  
  
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  66

  What Should the Minimum Wage Be (USA)?

  by Village Idiot in

  1. social
  2. current

  during the gop debates donald trump said that american’s “wages [are] too high” and later said “that having a low minimum wage is not a bad thing for this country” (7:25)..

  do you agree and if so why?.

  my two cents on this issue; do the math.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
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  Saintbertholdt

  Thank you. The reply was honest. I think that things changed when corporations gained a legal identity. Even Henry Ford warned that this was a bad idea.

  Well organizations go back very far and seem to be an organizing principle employed by humans. I believe a feature of global evolution.

  The idea of an organization being a legal person enables organizations to outlive its founder, for example: Ford, Hewlett Packard, IBM and so on.

  The problem also being unlimited liability. If a human supersedes the organization he or she is the head of, the management/workers will always be at risk and not the corporation. Now this may sound like a good idea until you have malicious litigation and so on.

  BTW I'm also conflicted about the rights of corporations to some extent.
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  66

  What Should the Minimum Wage Be (USA)?

  by Village Idiot in

  1. social
  2. current

  during the gop debates donald trump said that american’s “wages [are] too high” and later said “that having a low minimum wage is not a bad thing for this country” (7:25)..

  do you agree and if so why?.

  my two cents on this issue; do the math.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  In the retail establishments where I have worked people have been forced to work "off the clock" (free labor for the company) Why should anyone have to wait until it gets worse?

  I don't know. Shouldn't market forces perhaps correct it?

  
  
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  66

  What Should the Minimum Wage Be (USA)?

  by Village Idiot in

  1. social
  2. current

  during the gop debates donald trump said that american’s “wages [are] too high” and later said “that having a low minimum wage is not a bad thing for this country” (7:25)..

  do you agree and if so why?.

  my two cents on this issue; do the math.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  ...you then arrest them for non-payment of bills.

  WAIT A MINUTE... Are you proposing the bringing back of debtors jail?

  Oh BTW the "living wage" goes back to Adam Smith.
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  66

  What Should the Minimum Wage Be (USA)?

  by Village Idiot in

  1. social
  2. current

  during the gop debates donald trump said that american’s “wages [are] too high” and later said “that having a low minimum wage is not a bad thing for this country” (7:25)..

  do you agree and if so why?.

  my two cents on this issue; do the math.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  Saintbertholdt

  Injustice is rampant in labor and if there are no unions it's because union organizing has been squashed by the Walmarts and Kmarts of this nation. Workers who try to organize for labor in those establishments get blacklisted and booted by their employers.

  Remember this exactly what happened in England in the 19th century in the mining industry. When conditions deteriorated beyond the believable, the unions came into existence irrespective of the mining magnates bullying tactics.