The rest of the stuff spouted here is mere tripe.
Do you mean menudo?
TMS
Posts by TMS
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55Things That Make You Go 'Hmmmmm'
by Farkel ini was trying to do a little catching-up on posts this afternoon and read the thread where leander discussed his resignation as a ms as he is ending his days as a dub.
congratulations, leander!
you made the right choice!
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TMS
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I.Q., Fuel Pumps and the Non-Studebaker Larc
by TMS injust cant leave this iq thing alone, but rather than defile mystikools thread anymore, i will start anew.
larc, as a professional in this field has been patient with my naivete on the subject and as copied below, has noted a few of the conclusions reached by the behavioral sciences.. i remain an unbeliever.. i remain skeptical of the intelligence quotient test concept of testing intelligence.. as noted below, larc describes some of my examples to illustrate intelligence that would not be discovered by an i.q.
test as merely examples of cognition or sensation, not intellect.
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TMS
Just can’t leave this IQ thing alone, but rather than defile Mystikool’s thread anymore, I will start anew. Larc, as a professional in this field has been patient with my naivete on the subject and as copied below, has noted a few of the conclusions reached by the behavioral sciences.
I remain an unbeliever.
I remain skeptical of the Intelligence Quotient Test concept of testing intelligence.
As noted below, Larc describes some of my examples to illustrate intelligence that would not be discovered by an I.Q. test as merely examples of cognition or sensation, not intellect. Okaaaaaay.
Does it really matter HOW the human mind assimilates and processes information?
Let me take one last unprofessional, awkward stab at this subject. This will be more personal than I’m accustomed to getting on this board, but what the hell?
As a child, probably not unlike many on this board, I tested very high on the traditional I.Q. test given in the early 50’s and was “promoted” a couple of school grades. Shooting ahead of the pack as a pre-teen, I exhausted the school curriculum available then and waited for more challenges. Entering high school, the “armageddon is around the corner” mentality kicked in and I lost total interest, never picking up a school book for study, although I spent study hall in the library reading what interested me.
Even without academic credentials, I was what Arkies call “book smart” and they don’t mean that as a complement.
Let me illustrate with a real life example:
Almost thirty years ago, my wife and I and our young son were working rural territory in field service when our Chevrolet Vega refused to start.(This particular car speaks volumes about the IQ of the designer and purchaser).
An old farmer in bib overalls approached us as he heard the starter grinding with no response. His first question: “Boy, what are you doin’ out here in the middle of nowhere?”
He motioned for me to unlock the hood from inside and he lifted it up. After asking me to crank it a couple of times, he raised his hand in a stop motion. “Fuel pump”, he offered. “In this car, its in the gas tank. A hell of a mess.”
He walked back to his truck and brought a gallon gas can, some rubber hose and rags. In about 10 minutes he rigged an auxiliary gravity-flow fuel system on the car.
“Drive slow” was all he said.My wife and I were dumbfounded as we made it back into town safely.
If this gentleman and I had submitted ourselves to an IQ test, I have no doubt who would have the highest score.
So I cast my vote for the Robinson Crusoe Test. Do you have the resourcefulness to survive? Perhaps, physical dexterity plays a role in that. Or cognition. The senses.
Anyway.
######################################################################Just noticed this thread, so I am unaware of what may have prompted it. But, I do agree that the so-called Intelligence Quotient is so limited in scope so as to be almost useless in measuring any real capacity for learning or aptitude.
quote:Over the decades, the tests a have been redefined because of the way the questions were worded - and the subjects asked about. Obviously, a non-white from a foreign country, not speaking English, little school education wouldn't fare well on a test prior to the 60's/70's. And they didn't - bias was found, and tried to be corrected.
Thank you, waiting, for that insight. But still. . . the whole concept, as well as its implementation is flawed.
The aboriginal tribesman can "smell" rain in a cloud twenty kilometers away or distinguish between dozens of poisonous or non-poisonous roots and some who are poisonous fresh, but innocuous after drying. How quickly his offspring pick up these skills may well determine their capacity to learn.
And what about the wide variance in aptitude? Would it surprise you to know that Wehrner Von Brahn had trouble keeping his shoes tied?TMS
TMS,
Many people share your view of IQ tests. People in general treat them with suspicion, and among the intelligencia, they are a popular item of critcism.
Now, before you put them in a place of no value, you might want to interview the following people:
The school psychologist who is trying to figure out why a particular student is not doing well in school
The forensic psychologist who is trying to determine if a person is mentally competent to stand trial
The school counselor who is trying to convince a JW student to take a scholarship and go to college
The employer who is trying to build a capable work force, so that he can have a successful business
IQ tests are a tool. Like any tool, whether it is a screw driver, a yard stick, or an IQ test, they should be used properly, and used for their intended purpose.Larc,
You certainly have given more thought to these matters than I have. But I took the mental liberty(due to a bit of insomnia) of juxtaposing onto your scenario one of mine.
quote:TMS,
Many people share your view of IQ tests. People in general treat them with suspicion, and among the intelligencia, they are a popular item of critcism.
Now, before you put them in a place of no value, you might want to interview the following people:
The school psychologist who is trying to figure out why a particular student is not doing well in school
The forensic psychologist who is trying to determine if a person is mentally competent to stand trial
The school counselor who is trying to convince a JW student to take a scholarship and go to college
The employer who is trying to build a capable work force, so that he can have a successful business
IQ tests are a tool. Like any tool, whether it is a screw driver, a yard stick, or an IQ test, they should be used properly, and used for their intended purpose.In my imagination, I transported an aboriginal youth and Theodore Bundy to your classroom and sat them in front of you in two parallel student desks facing your teacher's desk. You handed each of them a copy of your Intelligence Quotient Test and a No.2 pencil and turned the hour glass up side down.
Eagerly awaiting the test results were several individuals, who sat in an adjoining room behind one way glass: a school psychologist, a psychologist, working for the court system, a school counselor and a job interviewer. All eagerly awaited the test results for their varied agendas.
I'm going to take this scenario to bed with me and sleep on the results.
Take care, my friend.TMS,
I am back. I wanted to address your three examples of skill or lack thereof. Your first one was of an aboriginese who could smell rain coming from some distance. This is primarily a skill of the senses and would probably not correlate highly with cognitive skills. Your second example of recognizing poinsonous snakes and how to properly prepare them is a learned behaviour and probably would correlate with measures of intelligence. Your third example is of a very bright person who had trouble tying their shoes. Tying shoes is a perceptual motor skill and also would not correlate hightly with cognitive functioning.TMS
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50
Iq Do Not Measure Natural Intelligentia (larc)
by mystikool inhere is article from net---.
recognizing that the binet test had its limitations, both binet and stern doubted iq scoring actually represented a fixed inborn quantity of intelligence.
as stern wrote in 1914: "no series of tests, however skillfully selected it may be, does reach the innate intellectual endowment, stripped of all complications, but rather this endowment in conjunction with all influences to which the examinee has been subjected up to the moment of testing.".
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TMS
Larc,
You certainly have given more thought to these matters than I have. But I took the mental liberty(due to a bit of insomnia) of juxtaposing onto your scenario one of mine.
TMS,
In my imagination, I transported an aboriginal youth and Theodore Bundy to your classroom and sat them in front of you in two parallel student desks facing your teacher's desk. You handed each of them a copy of your Intelligence Quotient Test and a No.2 pencil and turned the hour glass up side down.
Many people share your view of IQ tests. People in general treat them with suspicion, and among the intelligencia, they are a popular item of critcism.Now, before you put them in a place of no value, you might want to interview the following people:
The school psychologist who is trying to figure out why a particular student is not doing well in school
The forensic psychologist who is trying to determine if a person is mentally competent to stand trial
The school counselor who is trying to convince a JW student to take a scholarship and go to college
The employer who is trying to build a capable work force, so that he can have a successful business
IQ tests are a tool. Like any tool, whether it is a screw driver, a yard stick, or an IQ test, they should be used properly, and used for their intended purpose.
Eagerly awaiting the test results were several individuals, who sat in an adjoining room behind one way glass: a school psychologist, a psychologist, working for the court system, a school counselor and a job interviewer. All eagerly awaited the test results for their varied agendas.
I'm going to take this scenario to bed with me and sleep on the results.
Take care, my friend.
TMS
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50
Iq Do Not Measure Natural Intelligentia (larc)
by mystikool inhere is article from net---.
recognizing that the binet test had its limitations, both binet and stern doubted iq scoring actually represented a fixed inborn quantity of intelligence.
as stern wrote in 1914: "no series of tests, however skillfully selected it may be, does reach the innate intellectual endowment, stripped of all complications, but rather this endowment in conjunction with all influences to which the examinee has been subjected up to the moment of testing.".
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TMS
Just noticed this thread, so I am unaware of what may have prompted it. But, I do agree that the so-called Intelligence Quotient is so limited in scope so as to be almost useless in measuring any real capacity for learning or aptitude.
Over the decades, the tests a have been redefined because of the way the questions were worded - and the subjects asked about. Obviously, a non-white from a foreign country, not speaking English, little school education wouldn't fare well on a test prior to the 60's/70's. And they didn't - bias was found, and tried to be corrected.
Thank you, waiting, for that insight. But still. . . the whole concept, as well as its implimentation is flawed.The aboriginal tribesman can "smell" rain in a cloud twenty kilometers away or distinguish between dozens of poisonous or non-poisonous roots and some who are poisonous fresh, but innocuous after drying. How quickly his offspring pick up these skills may well determine their capacity to learn.
And what about the wide variance in aptitude? Would it surprise you to know that Wehrner Von Brahn had trouble keeping his shoes tied?
TMS
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JUDICIAL COMMITTEE -- ANDERSON
by silentlambs inthe wheels of the watchtower termination squad grind on.
at 4:45 p.m. today barbara anderson was contacted by the chairman of her previous judicial committee from last week.
barb was asked to meet with a new judicial hearing to face new charges which are adjusted as follows:.
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TMS
Adjusting the charges to make them stick is so prosecutorial. It's obvious the WTBS-directed Judicial Committee presupposes a review of the case, both in the press and by their own lame appeal mechanism.
What if during the proceedings Sister Anderson manifests genuine heartfelt repentance? The "Dateline" program has already been taped and besides J.R. Brown says it has nothing to do with any of these cases.
Is Christopher Dardin heading up Watchtower legal these days?
TMS
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70
Bill Bowen's Use of "Fake Precision"
by Psychdigg inthe fake precision fallacy involves making a claim with a mathematical precision that is impossible to obtain.. he does this on his site where he starts with an alleged and unsupported figure that the watchtower has a file of some 23,000 child molesters and runs that figure up to the point where it becomes absolutely absurd.
his purpose is to persuade readers that jehovah's witnesses are a hot bed of child molestation.
the problem is that he starts with at best very dubious sources and then he takes this data and treats it as if it is precise and factual.. it is not unusual for many of us to use a frivolous "false precision" in making statements.
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TMS
you can be sure the Watchtower organization is not intimidated or impressed by such tactics.
so?
TMS
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Stupid or Smart move by Watchtower?
by Beans indo you think it was stupid or smart for the watchtower to call brother bowen and the others in before this scandal goes very public.
this theocratic warfare i believe was a stupid move if you look at the situation from a jw perspective.. beans.
http://www.quotes.jehovahswitnesses.com/
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TMS
The WTBS has spent the last several years emphasizing "local control", decentralizing leadership, severing legal links between the GB and the corporation, etc. No judicial action, notes or elder comments are to EVER link the action to the WTBS.
Now, with judicial action in different congregations initiated in unison, it sets a precedent of hierarchal control from the top down, just the thing the WTBS has been trying to deny in recent years to limit lawsuit liability.
Not a very smart move at all.
TMS
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What does everyone here DO anyway?
by In_between_days inhi everyone,.
i am a new poster who is putting off their own personal story of finding this site for a while..... i find alot of people here utterly fascinating, and would like to know..... exactly what is everyones professional field of work?.
i would like to be a full time poster on this forum, but alas, the $$$$ are quite light in that field of work.. apologies if this has been asked before.. just curious.
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TMS
I am a pennypincher, a frugalist. Does anyone know the R value of dryer lint?
TMS
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Will silentlambs Be DF???
by silentlambs inwell now we have it, what appears to be the pre-emptive strike from wt.. as of this friday three families who appeared on the dateline program have been informed judicial committees have been setup with a one week notice and it is alleged that they have been causing "divisions" within the organization.
i got my letter today, barbara anderson got hers yesterday and the other family earlier this week.. if you were a pr firm would you think it to be a good idea or a bad idea to df everyone a couple of weeks before the dateline program airs?
what do you think the american public will think of such a move?.
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TMS
As I mentioned a number of weeks ago this is an excellent PR move for the WTS.
Perhaps, Hillary. But if those being summoned before judicial committees are from different congregations, wouldn't this be evidence of orchestration from the top as opposed to local control of matters? Are the Society's lawyers really thinking the asset protection issue through if they allow these cases to be concurrent? It appears to this feeble brain that if individuals in different congregations were simultaneously brought up on the same charges, it would indicate hierarchal, not grass roots control and open the floodgates for a hierarchal legal remedy.
TMS
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Witnesses! Reject The Spirit of Rehoboam!
by metatron inonce upon a time, the people of israel were tired from.
years of corruption and heavy taxation.
so, they told .
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TMS
metatron,
This is uncanny! Yesterday, after reading the thread about the circuit overseer's talk promoting shunning of "inactive", I thought about Rehoboam. My first inclination was to think that the WTBS had misplayed this whole inactive/apostate/stumbled scenario.
On second thought, perhaps organizational self-preservation DEMANDS isolation from those whose real life experiences contradict the image the Watchtower projects for itself.
TMS