Brother Prince Rogers Nelson may be rolling over in his grave.
Posts by TMS
-
33Field Service Privilege Can Be Taken Away Due to Hairstyle and Tight Pants???
by Wild_Thing inmillie2105 hours agohere is something i just found out this week.former belief - field service is a publishers inalienable right new belief - field service privilege can be taken away if person styles hair or wears clothing in a way that is deemed metrosexual.i was pretty much dumbfounded.. this was posted on another thread, so i decided to start a new topic about this.
i think this is amazing!
i wish this was in place when i was a kid.
-
-
-
57
Did you participate in a Drama?
by Hecce ini am bringing this up because even it was a lot of work, for the majority of the friends this was a rewarding experience.
camaraderie, joking, costumes, props and when the time came the celebrity status of being in the drama.. back in the 50s and 60s, conventions could be as long as 8 days and from about 1966 the dramas became an integral part of the program.
we had one per day and the brothers looked forward to their presentation.
-
-
TMS
Yes, a couple. . . . both, I think in the mid-seventies.
1. Something relating to the rebellion led by Korah. At the district convention we "rebels" had to jump off the stage onto a huge mattress to illustrate the "earth opening up." Stage lights kept the mattress in the dark. My wife and I were still regular pioneers and, thnking back on it, I should not have accepted the assignment. The prominent elder wanted me in the cast, but not my wife. I bought her a small black and white to cope with her lonely nights while I was at the arduous rehearsals. It still gnaws at me that the elder in charge, on a night he couldn't make it, bypassed me and another elder to lead the practice session in favor of his 18 year old son. Yes, face and leg paint, face beards and weird costumes.
2. After my first negative experience with a drama, I was approached by Bill Perkins, presiding overseer of the huge "black" congregation, Little Rock East. Bill, easily more articulate than the Watchtower's J.R. Brown, had been sent as a Special Pioneer to Little Rock in the early 60's. He persuaded me, against my instincts, to help him direct the drama, cleverlyagreeing to include my wife and 3 year old son(now 44) in non-speaking roles. I also played "Brother Kindly" in the drama as the only white "actor." Back then Little Rock East was such a large congregation(blacks from all over the city bypassed territory boundaries to attend with a wink-wink from the white congregations) that we had split meetings, two TMS/Service Meetings and two Public Meeting/Watchtower Studies. Bill used the split public meetings to have 4 full dress rehearsals to practice the drama in front of a live audience before the Memphis assembly. So, the congregation saw the drama at least twice before the assembly.
When we got to Memphis, Bill wanted another rehearsal on stage before the program started. Circuit Overseer Leroy Langan, in charge of news releases was bothering the performers for "action shots." Bill, motioning to me and, pointing to Langan, said: "Jim, could you handle that guy!." So, I walked over to Langan, who had served as my C.O. a few years previously and basically told him he was interfering with our rehearsal. LOL.
-
76
1958 Convention Program. 8 days from 9am till 9pm. Anyone attend?
by StopTheTears inhow in the world did they justify this torture?
imagine the children forced to sit in the summer heat at yankee stadium for 12 hours a day.
for 8 days.
-
-
TMS
A couple more memories from the Around the World 8-day assembly in Pasadena in 1963: On the bus trip down to Pasadena, a two year old in a onesie sleep outfit, was using the overhead storage rack as what we used to call "monkey bars," swinging from rack to rack with absolute ease. Some of the adult Witnesses were aghast, but most of us just marveled at the dexterity, fearlessness and aplomb of this gymnast. Finally, the driver got on the microphone and admonished the parents to control their child.
One more: Knorr's closing talk went way overtime. He actually announced to the audience in his opening statement that, if they had some deadline like a plane or bus to catch, it would be acceptable to leave, but that he was going to go well overtime. Finally, I got worried that I would miss my bus and made my way out to the parking lot. The bus was nearly filled. The brother who arranged the trip had a speaker inside the bus so all could hear the closing talk.
The bus driver, an affable guy, likely near retirement age, said we would have to leave very soon to get the bus back on time. At one point the driver, not a Witness, said: "Man, that guy likes to hear himself talk," a statement that didn't go over too well with the Knorrites. The driver set at least two deadlines, then gave in to the JW passengers wanting to hear Knorr out. Finally, he started the bus, gave us another few minutes, then, after apologizing to the cult group, took off. I, for one, totally understood, despite being mesmerized by Nathan Knorr.
-
76
1958 Convention Program. 8 days from 9am till 9pm. Anyone attend?
by StopTheTears inhow in the world did they justify this torture?
imagine the children forced to sit in the summer heat at yankee stadium for 12 hours a day.
for 8 days.
-
-
TMS
Just a few quick observations about the 1958 and 1963 8 day conventions: In 1958, we camped on the side of the road in our trip from Renton, Washington to N.Y. I was ten years old at the time. We traveled with a couple planning to go where the need was great in Ecuador, not as Gilead missionaries, but, on their own. We were not on friendly terms with them by the time we got to New York. On the trip across the country, I was stung by a bee that flew up my shirt sleeve.
As someone stated, the convention was held jointly at Yankee Stadium and the Polo Grounds. My dad told us that, should we be separated, we should wait at a designated numbered gate until discovered. When, I got lost among the throngs, I simply went to that gate and waited. My dad found me a couple hours later and seemed surprised I'd actually listened.
I remember the fake New York newspapers we bought with pages of pictures and articles about the JWs as if they actually made the front page. I still remember the headline "Witnesses Styled City's Best Guests." I also remember the attendance on the last day as 253,922. Rumors surfaced that the U.S. Army was analyzing the JW methods of serving so many during mealtime. LOL.
We went to the Polo Grounds six days and Yankee Stadium twice. On the last day Yankee Stadium officials allowed us to sit on the ball field. The sisters were instructed to remove their high heels.
Five years later, as a teenager, I went with a privately organized group that had chartered an old Tacoma city bus and a non-JW driver for the trek to Pasadena for the 1963 8 day assembly. As we neared the Rose Bowl, we encountered a massive traffic jam with the freeway a proverbial parking lot. Since we could see the stadium, but weren't moving, my friend George and I got permission to walk the rest of the way. We got seats in the upper deck of concrete bleachers and could see our old bus creeping in two hours later.
Yes, it was hot. I finally got some butcher paper from the cafeteria an sat in one of box seat areas directly on concrete with the butcher paper over my head as a sunscreen, . I remember about 8 "releases," among them the "Babylon the Great, God's Kingdom Rules!" book, "All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial," the huge reference New World Translation, a brochure on the Around the World conventions, etc. My limited funds from janitorial work and painting that summer did not permit me to buy copies for the whole family, upsetting my dad on my return. I was the only family member who went.
The contracted hotel, not engaged through the Society, turned out to be a huge flop house on Figueroa Street, condemned for the still-in-the-future Los Angeles Music Center. Even though the rate was only 80 cents per night, most of the brothers and sisters refused to stay there, finding other accommodations. I was totally pleased with the patchwork quilted beds(my room had two beds) and the claw-footed old bath tub. I saw my first knife fight from my hotel window and met prostitutes in the lobby. The night desk clerk would engage us in horseplay, putting me in a sleeper hold one night after the session. Smelling salts woke me up to laughter in lobby. One late night I walked to a Chinese restaurant on Vine Street. They were closed, but thought I was homeless and let me in for all the steamed rice I could eat. When I tried to pay, they charged me ten cents. On my way back to the hotel, I ran into dangerous "worldly" guy who wanted to know what I was "up to." When I told him I was there for the convention, he laughed, telling me how "easy" the JW chicks were.
Kent-Meridian High School administrators were upset that I missed the first week of school as this final "Around the World" convention was held the first week of September. I was able to give them a great "witness." LOL
-
23
My Personal Invitation to the Celebration of the Lord's Evening Meal
by TMS inby no means is this a heartwarming "experience" illustrating how an ex-jw skillfully "reached the heart" of a current jw, moving them to re-examine their belief system.
that won't be my take on my half hour visit with an elder's wife last sunday.
no one scored points here as is almost always the case in these interactions.. we live at the extreme southern tip of texas, on the u.s.-mexico border in a city of about 200,000. twenty years ago there were 20 spanish language congregations, 2 english.
-
-
TMS
Not that I've had many of these conversations, but. . . . a few years ago, a terrible tsunami wave killed hundreds in the far east. News reports indicated that indigenous people, relying on oral tradition had noticed warning signs of the danger and taken to higher ground.
About that time, I saw a man, about 35 or so, walking toward my door, accompanied by his 11 or 12 year old son. On that occasion I did not identify myself as a former JW. I fawned over the man's son a bit and then listened to the start of his presentation.
"You call your god Jehovah, right?" I asked.
"Yes, God's name is Jehovah," he responded, offering to show it to me in the Bible. I think he was flipping to Psalms 83:18 before I stopped him.
"Ok, so that book says that we are God or Jehovah's children, right?"
"Yes, we are God's children," he agreed.
"So, why," I asked, "did God not warn hundreds of his children that a tsunami was coming? He saw it coming, didn't he? Is there a reason he simply chose to watch them all die?"
He stood there thinking with no immediate response.
Then I addressed him by his first name which I now forget. "If you, as a father, had simply watched your son die, doing nothing to protect him or warn him, how would that be viewed by the authorities? Would you not be guilty of child abuse?"
The Witness man simply said "I have no answer for that. Thank you, sir, for your time."
From time to time I think about that man and his son. The son would likely now be well into his teenage years.
-
23
My Personal Invitation to the Celebration of the Lord's Evening Meal
by TMS inby no means is this a heartwarming "experience" illustrating how an ex-jw skillfully "reached the heart" of a current jw, moving them to re-examine their belief system.
that won't be my take on my half hour visit with an elder's wife last sunday.
no one scored points here as is almost always the case in these interactions.. we live at the extreme southern tip of texas, on the u.s.-mexico border in a city of about 200,000. twenty years ago there were 20 spanish language congregations, 2 english.
-
-
TMS
Overall, I think I was very gentle. After all, I don't really have any emotional stake in whether or not she continues in the religion. I'm sort of past that. When I spot a group of JWs in a neighborhood, no anger wells up inside me. Instead, I find myself noticing their clothing, trying to see if there is any sense of urgency about them or if any young ones are tagging along, wishing they were on a Little League ball field.
If any of my words stung, it was when I accidentally revealed my last name. She asked if I was related to so-and-so, a "brother" in her congregation. "Yes, that's my younger brother," I said wistfully. "I'm very surprised he's still in the religion. I thought he was smarter than that."
I meant that. My brother was removed as an elder during his divorce about 25 years ago. He lived sort of a double life after that for a number of years, smoking cigars, doing basically what he wanted to do while still attending meetings, etc. I always assumed he'd seen through the bullshit and was just going through the motions to hold his family together and keep his friends. Not so. He's back to a fully functioning JW. I've even heard "what wonderful talks he gives." Lol.
Likely, he heard her version of our conversation at the Kingdom Hall that afternoon.
-
23
My Personal Invitation to the Celebration of the Lord's Evening Meal
by TMS inby no means is this a heartwarming "experience" illustrating how an ex-jw skillfully "reached the heart" of a current jw, moving them to re-examine their belief system.
that won't be my take on my half hour visit with an elder's wife last sunday.
no one scored points here as is almost always the case in these interactions.. we live at the extreme southern tip of texas, on the u.s.-mexico border in a city of about 200,000. twenty years ago there were 20 spanish language congregations, 2 english.
-
-
TMS
Thanks Zeb. .
moomanchu, it's not a meal and during my years as a JW almost no one partook. A couple of times I took the bottle used for the wine home and finished it off. It felt a little weird, but wine is just wine, not an "emblem," except during the "memorial."
-
23
My Personal Invitation to the Celebration of the Lord's Evening Meal
by TMS inby no means is this a heartwarming "experience" illustrating how an ex-jw skillfully "reached the heart" of a current jw, moving them to re-examine their belief system.
that won't be my take on my half hour visit with an elder's wife last sunday.
no one scored points here as is almost always the case in these interactions.. we live at the extreme southern tip of texas, on the u.s.-mexico border in a city of about 200,000. twenty years ago there were 20 spanish language congregations, 2 english.
-
-
TMS
StephaneLaliberte,
"radiation?" Over 50 years ago, a man at the door interrupted my JW spiel to ask: "I've seen you around town. How old are you, 19 or 20? If you're not in college, you need to be and stop wasting your life with this bullshit."
That stung and was never forgotten.
OUTLAW. . that's a perfect graphic for how I felt. Each word seemed wasted on a being with no comprehension. It even felt like I was wasting time writing about the incident. . One point in the discussion seemed to touch a tiny nerve. I detailed some facts about a congregation servant I replaced who was grooming and abusing teenage girls. She thought about her elder husband, saying: "That would be on Victor. He knows better than that. He would be fully responsible for that."
Village Idiot,
Yes, the memorial is incongruous with every other meeting in that respect. JWs don't actually talk much about Jesus unless they are saying "in Jesus name" closing a prayer.
-
23
My Personal Invitation to the Celebration of the Lord's Evening Meal
by TMS inby no means is this a heartwarming "experience" illustrating how an ex-jw skillfully "reached the heart" of a current jw, moving them to re-examine their belief system.
that won't be my take on my half hour visit with an elder's wife last sunday.
no one scored points here as is almost always the case in these interactions.. we live at the extreme southern tip of texas, on the u.s.-mexico border in a city of about 200,000. twenty years ago there were 20 spanish language congregations, 2 english.
-
-
TMS
By no means is this a heartwarming "experience" illustrating how an ex-JW skillfully "reached the heart" of a current JW, moving them to re-examine their belief system. That won't be my take on my half hour visit with an elder's wife last Sunday. No one scored points here as is almost always the case in these interactions.
We live at the extreme southern tip of Texas, on the U.S.-Mexico border in a city of about 200,000. Twenty years ago there were 20 Spanish language congregations, 2 English. I have no idea if the numbers hold today, but the Witnesses are very active here and seeing groups out in field service or a tandem making a return visit is not at all uncommon.
This past Sunday I was trimming the oleander bushes at my son's house, when I was approached by a nicely dressed woman likely in her mid-forties, working alone, inviting me to the memorial. I refused the invitation, quickly explaining that I had a long history as a JW and was totally familiar with her belief system.
Absolutely undaunted, the confident young lady asked if a particular incident had "disappointed" or "stumbled" me or if I had an issue with a particular belief. I laughed, not sarcastically, but knowingly, as an older man gently dealing with a potential daughter figure.
"No, no. no!" I said. "It's much broader than that. I learned absolutely that Jehovah's Witnesses are simply another man-made religion, not unlike the Seventh Day Adventists. In fact, many of their beliefs originated with the Adventists. They are a high control, suffocating religion not dissimilar to the Amish, the Mennonites, etc., fearful of their adherents gaining incite from outside sources that will undermine their belief."
"But, I know it's futile to even have this conversation. You can't disprove by evidence someone's beliefs. We tried that years ago as JWs, trying to read scriptures disproving the trinity or a burning hell. It didn't work then and it wouldn't work with you. Nor would I necessarily want it to work. I spent 50 years of my life interfering, trying to effect people's belief systems. I'm done with that."
She was the one that wanted to press on with the discussion, not me. So, I gave her what she wanted, touching on the huge scandals involving protecting child molesters and the organization to the incredible harm to innocent molestation victims. She claimed to remember the young woman in Canada, molested by a JW, who was forced to pay $100,000 in legal costs, to know about Conti in California and the ARC in Australia.
"We must remember that Jehovah sees all of this, hates it and will deal with it," she tried to say.
"Oh, really? I countered. There is no evidence that Jehovah or any other God has done anything to protect these little ones or right the injustice."
I looked her in the eyes and said: "Obviously, NONE of this touches you just as I knew it wouldn't."
Despite my better judgement, I kept going. I illustrated the warped justice of stoning juvenile delinquents in Israel, while not punishing King David for adultery AND murder. "Jehovah killed the ONLY innocent in that whole situation, the young child of David and Bath-Sheba."
I covered Malawi-Mexico, thoroughly. She must KNOW that the JW men just across the Rio Grande from our conversation are allowed to bribe government officials for a tarjeta declaring they have fulfilled their military service obligations while JWs in Malawi were told to take a stand of NOT buying a one dollar party card that would have saved them from loss of their homes, fields, the raping of their wives and daughters as well as many their lives in many cases.
None of this remotely fazed her.
When I mentioned that my wife and I felt we had both totally wasted our 50 plus years with Jehovah's Witnesses, as well as jeopardizing our son's success in life, we talked briefly about the JWs stance on education. She had to tell me that she received a masters degree before becoming a JW. Her dad was a lawyer. "I come from a well-educated family," she claimed.
I just shook my head. It sort of felt like shaking the dust off my feet.
"Well, we would love to see you for the Memorial if you're able," she blurted out as she departed.
"I will never set foot in a Kingdom Hall for any reason," I responded.
Neither us came remotely close to losing our composure in this fruitless conversation. As she turned her back I resumed trimming bushes.
-
57
Any ExJw Millenials here? If not which Gen do you fall under?
by Hidethevelociraptors inif anyone had to guess, what do you think the average age of the community actually is?.
are more millennials actually waking up or is it pretty even amongst previous generations as well?
.
-
-
TMS
born just after WWII. . . . as a kid learned that the name Jehovah appeared 8029 times in the American Standard Version, could name the four generals of Alexander the Great, watched the first Sputnik cross the sky, sometimes watched Howdy Doody on TV.