Posts by TMS

30

Is this the earliest WT reference to 1975?

by Splash in

i thought that the 1975 thing started in the mid to late 60's, but it seems the seeds were sown two decades earlier.is this the earliest reference to it?.

18 how many today are awake to the fact that the lord christ jesus, by his resurrection of the faithful bride members that slept in death, is taking his "bride" unto his father's house and the marriage of the lamb has begun' .... they do not say, 'it is a long time yet to the wind-up, and, according to the present understanding of bible chronology, six thousand years of human history will end first in the coming seventies and till then it is a long stretch to serve the lord continuously and undividedly.'.

... they keep their eye and heart on jehovah's kingdom, and not on the time clock.

TMS

My Watchtower non-education is rapidly fading, but. . . . . "Aid to Bible Understanding" in the article on chronology mentioned 1974 as the likely end of 6,000 years of human history. I guess the authors missed the cardinal/ordinal year miscue. "All Scripture is Inspired of God and Beneficial," published in 1963, in its chapter on chronology mentions the difficulty of knowing how long Adam and Eve were in the Garden before procreating, thus starting the so-called 6,000 years.

Doesn't all this shit sound quaint, archaic and ludicrous now?

73

Everybody loves Raymond

by Saintbertholdt in

a while ago the user vinman started a forum thread called: "ray franz was an idiot".

the reaction to it was quite negative but i have to admit that the title of that thread was intriguing to me.

by nature i am an iconoclast.

TMS

I definitely think Ray was involved in some sort of power struggle and lost

It's possible to get sucked into such a struggle by simply expressing an alternate viewpoint. The less-than-well-intentioned "brothers" come at you with such force, vindictiveness and fake righteous indignation, that you feel compelled to "fight fire with fire." Not favoring a Kingdom Hall remodel, for example, quickly becomes "disrespect for a traveling overseer" or worse, the FDS.

I appreciate the counterpoint on Ray even though I don't totally agree. I'm pretty certain he sweated getting his documents out of Brooklyn, though, as I would in that situation.

48

Any Senior Citizens, Retirees here?

by AlwaysBusy in

jw
friends

howdy....well, what do you think?

of everything?

is it all crazy?

TMS

Able to retire 11 years ago at 55.

Spent at least 3 years reliving my JW life in my dreams, sometimes angrily. These dreams(nightmares?) still recur, although less frequently.

My 50 years of JW life was not a total waste, as it gave me a unique skill set.

I started a blog several years ago on a whim. Somehow, it got several million pageviews. I live off SS, a small pension and Google adsense.

Worked a few years as a volunteer with CASA, Court Appointed Special Advocates. . . . learned a lot.

Learned a great deal from this website and the one before it. . . . . especially during those heart-wrenching first years of making the break.

At peace

25

The Watchtower Corporation has paid off CNN...

by Calebs Airplane in

rick mclean gets only 15 minutes of fame.... no mention of how the watchtower protects pedophiles.... http://www.themasonictrowel.com/books/the_hidden_powe_behind_freemasonry/files/chapter_19.htm.

TMS

A few things:

A subliminal message showing JW's calling at a home. The householder comes to the door with her young daughter. The fact that potentially a pedophile could be at your doorstep, close to your young ones was conveyed.

Also, the victim, now an adult, referred to "the church," indicating she's no longer a JW.

The father of the victim stated that his ideal scenario would be for McLean to be caught and spend life in prison. He said fellow prisoners "know how" to deal with people like that. IMHO, an active JW would likely think that, but not say it on national tv.

Was is that mother that said the incidents had "torn the family apart?"

My guess is that the family are no longer JWs. Although it did not come up in the story, at one point, they were likely approached about protecting Jehovah's name.

Also, one more thing. How did McLean have time to sell his possessions before being indicted? That indicates to me a possible delay in reporting the crime.

30

Question for current and former elders: did you feel qualified to give counsel for depression?

by kneehighmiah in

jw
friends

do you feel the counseling demands placed on elders are fair and scriptural?.

i live in an economically depressed industial city.

my dad is an elder in a lower income black congregation.

TMS

JW elders are not trained counselors period. There is simply no training within the organization.

As a Congregation Servant, then elder from the 60's to 90's, I know I was inadequate despite using every JW resource. One of my concerns was how to make real shepherding calls, not just share material from the Watchtower or Kingdom Ministry. In the 80's I listened to talk radio during my night job featuring Dr. Henry Ruben. I actually mimicked his questioning technique and style, at least becoming a good listener, but without the skills to do talk therapy. I got the image of a counselor without the substance or training.

I did get assigned as a JW rep to visit patients at a state mental hospital who identified themselves as JW's. I remember one clinically depressed sister walking out to me, shoulders sagging, her body language indicating to me she was totally down. I've never felt less adequate. The so-called New Order or Kingdom hope, knowing Jehovah, etc. is useless in that situation. That person needs, not only talk therapy, perhaps pharmaceuticals to balance body chemistry, all skills not taught at the Kingdom Hall.

Alcoholism, alcohol dependency, etc. is another problem not in within the wheelhouse of JW elders. I took assignments to "counsel" such men in the congregation. Actually, no one else would. Do you realize how stupid it is to assign an alcoholic JW a Watchtower article to read for his problem? Two men I "worked" with stayed in the congregation as long as I was there because I was an advocate for the fact that they were "good" men deep inside. Both men were disfellowshipped shortly after I left the organization for being "practicers of sin."

JW counseling is bull shit.

19

Seattle Convention Videos

by exwhyzee in

jw
friends

this is the link to the website that was set up for the intl.

convention here in seattle the weekend before last.

we went to dinner in the city with family members afterward and saw a lot of old friends.

TMS

After watching just a few minutes of the scenery, the economy of Washington State, I turned it off. The amaterish narration, linking the beauty and prosperity of one political division of the United States, a state, with Jehovah, was nauseating. I grew up in Seattle. Yes, there is much in the way of natural beauty to be enjoyed if you're not a relgious fanatic distributing literature, conducting "Bible studies," attending meetings every spare moment.

And Boeing? The only decent job my skills-challenged dad ever had was with Boeing in the 50's, in the boiler department. While some JW's did continue working at Boeing if the job was not obviously linked to the military, defense, my dad's "conscience" led him to quit.

This video induced a profound sadness I've not felt in a while.

tms

35

Reverse Witnessing - Will NEVER work!

by MissConfused in

its been a while since i spoke up.

after a lot of 'tactful' questioning, i have come under the conclusion that witnessing ttatt with dubs will never work.

there is nothing called reasoning with them.

TMS

The seeds planted could be considered as time-release medication, taking effect later. Having said that, I think "reverse witnessing" or disproving someone's belief system is very JW.

I spoke for three hours last night with an old friend my age, 66, both of us longtime elders. He is still in. I've been out for some time. While making no attempt to persuade him, I wanted it understood that my permanent departure from the religion was not a "stumbling" or a reaction to an injustice, mistakes made by imperfect men, false predictions or some doctrinal issue, but that I view the religion as one of hundreds of man-made belief systems. Going further, I explained I felt the same way about "Jehovah," the Bible and the god concept.

After all that was carefully explained, repeated several times, several different ways, he said: "Just remember, Jehovah sees all this."

260

Who Are Your Past Circuit Overseers? It's a small world..

by mentallyfree31 in

who were your past circuit overseers?

i'm sure a lot of us actually know mutual people, as the co's relocate all over the country.. here's a few from the southeast us: (let me know if you recognize any names and post yours too please...).

ellwood johnson (new york/philadelphia area for several years also).

TMS

Just a few observations on those mentioned so far that I recognized, not all I've known. All of those I mention were observed as an adult since my youthful impression might be different. It won't be all negative. Without an assembly program in front of me, the spelling may vary.

Don Graeber: My age. We pioneered in neighboring congregations in Arkansas in the early 70's. Don and Shirley were humble, conscientious, straight-laced. Don worked hard at public speaking, but was not naturally gifted. They went to Bethel as a couple. I ran into Don a couple decades later. He gave a talk at an assembly as a District Overseer and he sounded like one. Originally from Oregon.

Don Farmer: Very meticulous with his personal belongings, car, trailer, etc. Sometimes viewed as arrogant, but I didn't pick up on that. A so-so public speaker. When the water pump malfunctioned at our rural Kingdom Hall during his visit, he took it apart, formed a gasket out of gasket paper and made a repair. Don was not hyper, more laid back. His wife was a photographer who did not hide her fondness for The Beatles.

Gene Shalkoski: Definitely old school, somewhat self-righteous. He liked to keep publishers, especially elders out in field service beyond their comfort zone. We once worked five hours in door-to-door after a Sunday meeting. I'm not certain what he was trying to prove, but no one wanted to be the first to suggest we call it a day.

Kenneth Dull: From the Seattle area. We met him, though in south Texas, his second circuit. He did not have a trailer then, staying with publishers in their homes. He was very conservative, not impressed with gladhanders or brothers with money.

Koinjavich: District Overseer. Total asshole. He had a fetish about the microphone cord. Met him when I was an established elder. Not impressed.

Fred Lanier: Fatherly. Wife: Gloria, I think. Possibly from Georgia.

Eugene Brandt: sort of legendary District Overseer. He married a sister from San Antonio, but originally from Philadelphia. Very good speaker, but not enjoyable on a personal level. He was reduced to Circuit Overseer briefly as sort of a punishment for some indiscretion. At least that's what he told a couple of us.

I'll stop there. . . . . . .tms

20

Have you noticed the JW child who........?

by Phizzy in

have you seen the jw child who grows up to be the ideal product of the cult from its point of view, and presumably from its indoctrinated parent's point of view?.

that young person is a weirdo !!!.

i can think of a number like this, still a minority fortunately, in that most of the ones i watched grow up either left or did not embrace the thing anywhere near 100%.. but those one-hundred-percenter kids are something to behold !.

TMS

Many of us who grew up as JWs found ourselves with limited social skills compared to our peers. Within the congregation, we knew all the buzz words, jargon and customs, but outside we were limited. Even if we excelled academically in public schools, we missed out on summer camps, clubs, extra-curricular activities, dances, socializing, dating~all the things that help a person develop socially.

Certainly, the religion's children developed oddly. Consider, the home-schooled 12 year old boy, who "pioneers" with a carload of sisters, taking the lead because he is a male. being called "Brother So-and-So," not by his first name like other boys his age. When, he should be on a basketball court, cursing when he misses a shot, he's praying in front of a group, then directing older ladies in field service. Of course, he becomes a weirdo. . . . . .

55

Is there Racial harmony among the JWs?

by Amazing in

jw
friends

when i joined the jws, racial issues were not really discussed much, other than some mention in the material given to me during my bible study in the "truth" book.

our kingdom hall had only one dark skinned individual, who is portguese, and one of the anointed.

i believe that he is now deceased.

TMS

Jehovah's Witnesses were well behind the curve in the United States with respect to civil rights(Brown vs Department of Education, 1954). The concern was always "community standards," not Christian principles. Corpus Christi, TX was integrated in 1969. Little Rock, AR had a predominately black congregation that drew from all congregation territories in the city until 1986. Oh, there was a sprinkling of black publishers in all of the Kingdom Halls in Little Rock, but, the nearly all black congregation was tolerated and encouraged.

As for interracial marriage, that was tolerated with the understanding that opportunities for organizational advancement might be limited.

As for congregation responsibility, this was an area where non-whites could excel, giving an impression of even-handedness.

For some reason, while JW's taught that all races were brothers, they never wanted to make an issue of this in the community.