Posts by Newly Enlightened

12

The Cult Test

by AndDontCallMeShirley in

jw
friends

after reading this, is there any doubt watchtower is a cult?.

the following information describes cults in general but is not specifically focused on the jehovah's witnesses, although they are mentioned several times.

the characteristics of cults are so much in line with wt tactics, down to similar phrases and buzzwords.. .

Newly Enlightened

Excellent topic DCMS! Here are some quotes from some different sources that you all might find interesting:

Definition of a cult

THE ORIGINAL USE OF THE WORD "CULT" AS WELL AS IT'S USE TODAY DERIVES FROM THE LATIN WORD "CULTUS" WHICH MEANS "WORSHIP".

DICTIONARY DEFINITION- A GROUP BOUND TOGETHER IN A INTENSE DEVOTION TO A PERSON, IDEAL OR THING; A SYSTEM OF BELIEFS AND RITUALS THAT ARE BOGUS. In other words they are practicing a false system of spirituality while claiming to be authentic.

In 1912 Ernst Troeltsch in the book social teaching of the Christian church, classified religious groups in three groups: "Church", "sect", and "cult". A cult represented a mystical or spiritual religion to intellectuals and educated classes.

With a more Biblical perspective, in 1938 Jan Van Baalens' "The Chaos of Cults" critiqued Theosophy, Mormonism, Christian Science, and Jehovah's Witnesses as 'Cults.' Because they were aberrant in their teachings while claiming to be Christian.

Christian apologist Robert Bowman defines a cult as A religious group originating as a heretical sect and maintaining fervent commitment to heresy. Adj.: "cultic" (may be used with reference to tendencies as well as full cult status.( Robert Bowman, A Biblical guide to Orthodoxy and heresy.)

Cult's will say they are the way to Christ and Christ Himself is not the way. So they put themselves as a group or their teaching in between man and God. They become mediators between God and man. They do not have the Christian distinctive, but will claim to be Christian in their beliefs and practices. It was Christ himself who Said "I Am the way, the truth the life."

A THEOLOGICAL DEFINITION A THEOLOGICAL DEFINITION OF "CULT" MUST BE BASED ON A STANDARD OF CHRISTIAN ORTHODOXY. USING THE BIBLE'S TEACHING AS A FOCAL POINT. A CULT IS ANY RELIGIOUS GROUP THAT CLAIMS TO BE CHRISTIAN (OR MAY NOT BE) IS DISTINCT AND HAS DOCTRINES AND PRACTICES THAT CONTRADICT THOSE OF THE SCRIPTURES AS INTERPRETED BY ORTHODOX CHRISTIANITY. THOSE THINGS THAT HAVE BEEN UPHELD IN HISTORIC CHRISTIANITY .

ORTHODOXY IS REPRESENTED FROM THE BEGINNING OF THE CHURCH, AND IS EXPRESSED IN STATEMENTS SUCH AS THE APOSTLES CREED WHICH ARE DENIED . THEY WILL DENY THE BIBLE AS THE COMPLETE BOOK OF REVELATION AND OUR GUIDE TO KNOWING GOD. THEY WILL DISTORT THE CENTRAL MESSAGE OF THE SCRIPTURES AS CHRIST BEING THE SAVIOR ALONE. THEY WILL DENY HIS DEITY AND DISTORT HIS NATURE. THEY FORM THEIR GROUP AROUND A SINGLE PERSONS INTERPRETATION OF SCRIPTURE, OR CHRIST USUALLY BY A NEW REVELATION. THEY REMOVE THEMSELVES FROM THE LARGER BODY AND OPERATE AUTONOMOUSLY. A CULT IS ORGANIZED HERESY. THEY WILL DISTORT ONE OR MORE OF THE FUNDAMENTALS.

Walter Martin described a cult like this: "as a group of people gathered about a specific persons interpretation of the bible... from a theological view point, the cults contain not only a few major deviations from historic Christianity. They paradoxically, they continue to insist that they are entitled to be classified as Christians." (Kingdom of the cults p.11)

In his book The New Cults, Walter Martin defines a cult as “a group religious in nature which surrounds a leader, or a group which either denies or misinterprets essential biblical doctrines.”

18

What if you were DF'd for apostacy, but instead of the expected...

by respectful_observer in

this is a hypothethical, so i'm not looking for whether you would ever do this, or "why would you want to subject yourself to this...", but rather, what would happen if some did do this..... .................... you're half of a married jw couple, and you admit to doubts about certain wts teachings and it leads to an eventual disfellowshipping.

but instead of walking away from the kingdom hall forever, you stay put.

you faithfully go to every meeting with your spouse.

Newly Enlightened

WELCOME App-sun01! Nice to have you here with us.

19

Have you seen this book?

by mouthy in

http:www.amazon.com/crises-conscience-raymond-franz/dp/191475044.

sorry i cant make it printable ( old age).

Newly Enlightened

Mouthy, you have a PM from us.

10

Examples please; How does the WTS 'bait and switch' after Baptism...?

by The Song Remains The Same in

i was wondering if there is a list already on here that presents the key 'game changers' or 'bait and switch' points that will happen once you get baptised?

this can include behavioral changes by the already members towards the newly baptised.. i've read somewhere about the 'love bombing' and how that stops, heard a bit about the time-in-service reporting, and that pressure to attend the meetings goes up (esp.

if missing a few).

Newly Enlightened

When I was baptized in 1979, I was never told that I would have to OBEY the GB. I didn't even know there was one, until later. I was also baptized to the Father, Jesus & the holy spirit thru the bible.

But I do know what everyone means about the 'love-bombing'. After your baptized then the elders start in with the meeting attendance, the way you dress, hubby's sideburns, not enough FS time, etc. Then if you ever do anything to be marked as a 'trouble-maker' they mark you as such and really don't want anything to do with you.

Hubby and I have only had 5 shepherding calls in the 33 years that we've been baptized!

My daughter Gojira_101 and her hubby have been married 3 years now and haven't had any yet.

39

Flipping out at the meeting

by BU2B in

jw
friends

unfortunatley, i still go to many meetings as i am working on getting my wife to wake up.

for the most part i maintain my composure but there have been two or three times when i actually have gotten so upset and the frustration built so high that i have come very come close to actually slamming something down or pounding the table in the literature room, or shouting out how i felt!

has anyone else felt this way?

Newly Enlightened

Hubby and I were talking about our old cong. last night after he posted that about the creep. Come to think of it, we had a very high drama cong. There was always something going on. We have another experience about a young brother that Hubby will put in his post on the weekend.

This one, wasn't really anyone 'Flipping out' I know the poster is wanting to know of anyone losing it and walking out.

There was an older brother in his 70's that walked with a cane. He had a grand-daughter and great-grandaughter [Megan] that lived with them since she was a single mom. But every meeting they would bribe Megan to be good and quiet and we'll take you to Mc Donalds. The entire family was very large and could barely fit into their seats. Megan was only about 6 or 7 but well over 100 lbs, maybe even closer to 200. She was as wide as tall. But one Thurs night she was walking around in their row, being very restless and saying "I want french fry!" The g-pa always laid his cane on the floor in front of him. Just wait, don't get ahead of me now, but you can see where this is going, can't you?

Yep she was walking around and stepped on his cane, we heard a large 'SNAP' she fell when it broke and knocked a couple of chairs over. The g'pa yelled Gxxdammit Megan! loud enough for the entire hall to hear.

Our family started laughing along with several others in the KH. No one expected that from this older brother.

25

My husband MISSED the meeting today! AGAIN!!!

by Julia Orwell in

jw
friends

yep, i was comparing the nwt with the greek, which, incidentally uses words like 'grace' and 'spirit' instead of 'undeserved kindness' and 'gifts of the spirit'.

i pointed out these mistranslations to my dear husband.. then i showed him 2 tim 2:5-6 in the nwt and the original greek (strong's, westcott and hort) as well, where it says jesus became mediator for all and showed him in the wt where it says jesus is only mediator for 144 000. i also showed him an instance in the wt where it raves on about hating 'apostates' and others, then showed him matthew 5:44 "however i say to you: continue to love your enemies and to pray for those persecuting you.".

i didn't have to say anything 'apostate'; just show him the contrasting texts.. then i showed him the "shepherd" book where it says one can get dfd for "deliberately spreading teachings contraryto bible truth as taught by jebovah's witnesses" (ibid, pg 65) and told him that i've deliberately told him something different to the wt teaching therefore in the elders' eyes, i can be dfd.

Newly Enlightened

AWESOME Julia, so happy for you both. Jgnat is right. You don't have to GO anywhere. Christ said 'Come to me' He is the way. You certainly don't want to run off and get involved in another mind control cult.

Like Hubby & I, you just need to re-learn the bible and re-invent yourself as a 'thinking' person, as you appear to be.

Hubby [Brother of the Hawk] says: Your line of reasoning worked on your hubby because he is being honest of heart and obviously has a conscience that you are obviously beginning to get to. This line of reasoning will not work on JW's who are not honest of heart and shut down their minds and consciences. I have for alot of years have been saying 'JW's are the most self-deceived people on this planet." I said that when I was a very active JW.

Affectionately,

NE & BotH

18

Why Is This Video By Jehovah's Witnesses Sign Language Dept. So Wrong

by BlindersOff1 in

sorry could not resist.

.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2gsvcfrmjq&feature=youtu.be.

Newly Enlightened

My daughter Gojira_101 is a professional sign language interpreter and this is what she posted on another topic. It is a 'spoof' that has been going on another topic.

Also LORD I don’t want to put you to the test, but what were you thinking when directing the Whacker Brothers in making that video for the deaf? I have had to do so much damage control with the deaf community and other hearing interpreters, they think it’s hilarious and I have tried to up hold your name and get them to take it seriously, but it’s been to no avail.

I asked her, as a professional what was so wrong with it. She said that they are too graphic with the signs. Professionals are a little more discreet and you don't need the exaggerated gestures or facial expressions.

But she can chime in on this topic if she's not too busy....

6

"The Sociopath Next Door" by Martha Stout, Ph.D.

by gmcotten in

jw
friends

"[pshychologist] stanley milgram .

pointed out that people who disobey destructive authority suffer psychologically, too.

often a person who disobeys finds himself at odds with the social order, and may find it hard to shake the feeling that he has been faithless to someone or something to whom he pledged allegiance.

Newly Enlightened

Good topic! Below is an excerpt from a Norwegian article. Sorry if the grammar is not the best, I had to use Google translate to put it in English. The link to the article follows: http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=no&tl=en&js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&eotf=1&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nrk.no%2Fnyheter%2Fnorge%2F1.10651396&act=url

NRK.no have sent the book to several child psychologists for an assessment. Professor Willy-Tore Mørch , University of Tromsø is merciless in their characteristics.

Video Willy Tore Mørch (Foto: Nyhetsspiller)

. CAN BE INJURED: These drawings can create anxiety and stress and it can harm children in several ways, says Professor Tore Mørch-Willy.

Foto: Nyhetsspiller Photo: New Plays

– There is a child abuse creating anxiety and stress on children. There is little doubt that the drawings and stories of murder and promises of healing through faith is suited to anxiety and stress in children. Children who experience this type of abuse can be damaged, both neurobiological and psychological, says Mørch to NRK.no.

Knife against infant

The drawings make it clear how brutal it can be for those who do not live in God, Jehovah's spirit . Central to their teaching is the idea of ??Armageddon . Those who do not preach the word of Jehovah as a witness, and will meet accident and killed at Armageddon, doomsday, occur. The other comes into paradise, where they are assured of eternal life.

: More colorful drawings illustrate this perception of reality in children's book through pictures such as:

Dead people in the pool of blood and dead soldiers on the battlefield
Man strangling women and people who are drowning under the Flood
Abraham binds Isaac on the altar, holding before his eyes while he was holding a large knife in his hand before him
Sick Job that have large boils on the body as part of Jehovah's efforts to screen out potential candidates to Paradise
Slave being whipped, Stephen being stoned and the man holding a knife against an infant

It does not specify from what age children should read the book, except that it will happen from one is "very small." . But the introduction emphasized biblical figure Samuel as a cream example, since he began to serve Jehovah the tabernacle at the age of four or five years.

"So no matter how small you are, you are not too small to serve Jehovah" it says.

Sources NRK.no have been in contact with say that the book has a very central role in the Jehovah's Witness-parent upbringing, and stresses that it is expected that early will give the children Bible studies.

Many children will feel guilt and shame to think that things in the secular world is cool. And know that if you think so, you risk Armageddon and ostracism which means being separated from their parents.The fear is an inherent part of growing up in the Jehovah's Witnesses, he says.

In 2001, Save the Children, a project called Go On, where young defectors from closed communities were followed up. Adviser at Save the Children and coordinator of the project at the time, Kaja Hegg , saying that the illustrations and text of the children's literature of Jehovah's Witnesses reflects a form of manipulation of the children that promotes bad conscience and mind control in children. Children exposed to additional stress in childhood, according Tue Toft higher risk for anxiety, depression and various mental stress reactions.

It's not like there are adventure stories they are told.It used very strong imagery to convince them, he said.

Tom Frisvold is unable to understand that a childhood of Jehovah's Witnesses will be characterized by manipulation and mind control to the point of abuse.

51

Very Curious, what kind of feedback are you getting from ACTIVE Jehovah's Witnesses on Candace's California Court Victory ?

by Balaamsass in

i am stunned by candace's huge court victory.

it is overdue.

i have been reading comments on jvn, huffington, san jose mercury, nbc, and other sources.

Newly Enlightened

Every JW I have tried to talk to about this case has not heard ANYTHING about it. I told them that it was on the 'old' JW official website and every single one fo them told me that they don't go to the news section, only the literature. My son-in-law's family denied that it was really JW's, it must have been someone else. Others have said that the molester was not a JW. One JW actually said that it was a shame that Conti had to take her brothers to court and bring shame to Jehovah and his organization! WHAT?

Typical JW, make it the VICTIMS fault! I commend Candace Conti and her family and hope WTBT$ gets exposed for the monsters they are.

21

Mentally Diseased

by Mum in

apparently (i'm taking others' word for it) the watchtower publications are asserting that "apostates," i.e., those who have chosen to no longer be jehovah's witnesses, are "mentally diseased.

" there are some important issues with this assertion.. first, they are not mental health professionals and in no position to diagnose mental illness.

do they believe we all have the same "mental disease," or are there different diagnoses for different people who come to their senses?.

Newly Enlightened

WT 2011 July/15 pg 15-19

5 How do false teachers operate? Their methods reveal a cunning spirit. Apostates “quietly bring in” corruptive ideas. Like smugglers, they operate in a clandestine manner, subtly introducing apostate views. And just as a clever forger tries to pass phony documents, so apostates use “counterfeit words,” or false arguments, trying to pass their fabricated views as if they were true. They spread “deceptive teachings,” “twisting . . . the Scriptures” to fit their own ideas. (2 Pet. 2:1, 3, 13; 3:16) Clearly, apostates do not have our best interests at heart. Following them would only divert us from the road that leads to eternal life

6 How can we protect ourselves against false teachers? The Bible’s counsel regarding how to deal with them is clear. (ReadRomans16:17;2 John 9-11.) “Avoid them,” says God’s Word. Other translations render that phrase “turn away from them,” “keep away from them,” and “stay away from them!” There is nothing ambiguous about that inspired counsel. Suppose that a doctor told you to avoid contact with someone who is infected with a contagious, deadly disease. You would know what the doctor means, and you would strictly heed his warning. Well, apostates are “mentally diseased,” and they seek to infect others with their disloyal teachings. ( 1 Tim. 6:3, 4) Jehovah, the Great Physician, tells us to avoid contact with them. We know what he means, but are we determined to heed his warning in all respects?

W93 10/1 pg. 19 pp15

15 Regarding them, the psalmist said: “Do I not hate those who are intensely hating you,O Jehovah,and do I not feel a loathing for those revolting against you?With a complete hatred I do hate them.They have become to me real enemies.” (Psalm 139:21, 22) It was because they intensely hated Jehovah that David looked on them with abhorrence. Apostates are included among those who show their hatred of Jehovah by revolting against him. Apostasy is, in reality, a rebellion against Jehovah. Some apostates profess to know and serve God, but they reject teachings or requirements set out in his Word. Others claim to believe the Bible, but they reject Jehovah’s organization and actively try to hinder its work. When they deliberately choose such badness after knowing what is right, when the bad becomes so ingrained that it is an inseparable part of their makeup, then a Christian must hate (in the Biblical sense of the word) those who have inseparably attached themselves to the badness. True Christians share Jehovah’s feelings toward such apostates; they are not curious about apostate ideas. On the contrary, they “feel a loathing” toward those who have made themselves God’s enemies, but they leave it to Jehovah to execute vengeance.—Job 13:16; Romans 12:19; 2 John 9, 10.