Posts by StarryNight9

25

Thought Provoking Question to a JW?

by Solzhenitsyn in

did jesus ever utter the name jehovah?.

and if he didn't what are the implications?

nwt answers don't count but feel free to use the kingdom interlinear.

StarryNight9

I don't see it as a faith-shattering question/argument. It's subtle enough to get past the instant "apostasy" alert, but I think only the most academic JWs will care about the answer.

25

My Mom's Challenge to Me

by lriddle80 in

jw
friends

so my jw mom messages me on facebook last night and says she wants me, for a month, to read the bible, but first pray using the name jehovah and in jesus name and then read it with an open mind.

she is so ridiculous!

first of all, i do pray but i usually just say father and i always pray in jesus name and i find it ironic that she is saying i should have an open mind when hers is closed.

StarryNight9

How would she know whether you actually did it or not? Just food for thought.

40

Any word yet on the Annual Meeting?

by careful in

it's just a week or two away and still no sign of the usual hype?

very strange.... anyone heard anything about it?

perhaps from those still in to some degree or from relatives/friends still in?.

StarryNight9

Listener: "They've either got nothing to say or it's too expensive to televise, my money is on the cost cutting."

I doubt cost cutting would be the issue. Even if it's a live internet broadcast/stream... the tech is already in place from previous broadcasts. There's no need to buy broadcast air-time (internet is far cheaper/easier). There's really no cost at all unless they need to rent a bigger auditorium. Modern camera equipment doesn't use up resources like traditional film would (film, developing agents, etc...) . It's all just digital storage that can be wiped and reused as needed. I'm assuming that volunteers run the cameras and lighting.

I haven't heard squat about the annual meeting in JW land. It's either completely uneventful or $hit will hit the fan.

13

Notes I drafted for a local JW at a cart

by Doug Mason in

in recent weeks, a grizzled old man, obviously harmless, has been engaging with a nice lady as she regularly stands by her cart displaying watchtower material.. on monday, she eagerly wanted to know what this old man thought of the book she gave him, "what does the bible really teach?".

when this old man posed some questions, she was very keen for him to write them down.. she also promised to provide facts that earthquakes proved we are living in the last days.. anyway, to make a short story longer, the old man drafted questions and observations on the topics that were covered.. would you please criticise the stuff that this old man has drafted for his next encounter.

any help, anything at all, is most keenly looked for.

StarryNight9

"They are fearfully conscious that Yahweh is about to slaughter billions."

Ah yes, but those are supposed to be those that rejected the JW message. It's much more difficult to explain away those who happened to belong to the wrong tribe in biblical "history". There's no official JW doctrine to explain away the capriciousness of who dies in that time period or the blatant cruelty. Slavery, killing of children/babies in conquest, and being forced to marry your rapist don't sit well with modern ethics. There will be JW diehards who will do mental gymnastics to find it somehow "acceptable", but it's a weak point in the JW bible-as-literal-history perspective.

*I should probably mention that trying to convert a JW to a different religion is virtually impossible (if that's what you're attempting). When JW beliefs are dismantled... belief in the Bible/God often crashes and burns.

5

You Bet Your Life

by DNCall in

it is said that life is a gamble.

when you join a religion, you are wagering some portion of your life.

you may choose not to risk too much.

StarryNight9

@the girl next door

Me too!! I tried to "believe" when I was growing up, but it was never genuine. I eventually discovered the name for how I felt... atheist.

23

Funeral/Memorial at the Kingdom Hall ... Would you go?

by Wild_Thing in

jw
friends

let's say an aunt or uncle dies.

.

let's say you barely knew them.. let's say their memorial service was held at the kingdom hall.. let's say if you attend, you have to deal with shunning from family and jws, and you are forced listen to them present their paradise promotional materials, and the dead person's "earthly hope™", and let's face it ... the heeby-jeebies of having to be in a kingdom hall again.. would you put yourself through it?

StarryNight9

It's not a memorial talk... it's a propaganda display for a (literally) captive audience. There might be some personalized aspects depending on who gives the talk. However, I've seen several read-the-obituary and then launch directly into a dry cookie-cutter spiel about the ransom sacrifice talks. You wouldn't know it was a funeral except for the 30 second obituary and all the flowers. Those aren't the worst ones. I've seen talks that directly guilt-trip inactive/disfellowshipped children who are attending their parents funerals ("what so-and-so wanted to see most is all of his children in the paradise").

IMO - people would be better off to hold a small private ceremony, plant a tree, or something...

13

Notes I drafted for a local JW at a cart

by Doug Mason in

in recent weeks, a grizzled old man, obviously harmless, has been engaging with a nice lady as she regularly stands by her cart displaying watchtower material.. on monday, she eagerly wanted to know what this old man thought of the book she gave him, "what does the bible really teach?".

when this old man posed some questions, she was very keen for him to write them down.. she also promised to provide facts that earthquakes proved we are living in the last days.. anyway, to make a short story longer, the old man drafted questions and observations on the topics that were covered.. would you please criticise the stuff that this old man has drafted for his next encounter.

any help, anything at all, is most keenly looked for.

StarryNight9

Perhaps an ethical/moral section? I'm thinking from the female perspective here. Stats, science, and history are great, but connecting on an emotional level can have more impact - especially if she doesn't have the educational background to understand all the science stuff. It might be fairly easy for a fellow JW to bamboozle her with JW literature/facts afterwards. A moral/emotional issue can't be gotten rid of so easily. I'd start right off with all the people Jehovah has killed and the atrocities he promoted (according to his own book). How many people has Satan supposedly killed by comparison? If this whole thing is a test to prove we can't govern ourselves, why has he interfered so much (tower of Babel, the flood, "a chosen people", a book of instructions)? It's simply not a fair test. It's like the JW analogy of a student thinking he can do better than the teacher, so the teacher gives him the chance to prove it... but the teacher keeps killing the other students and telling them to follow his own rules (hardly "hands off").

Asking the moral questions in-person in a confused/sincere manner gets you brownie points... Other people are right about the mental shut-down if you lose your "innocent" cover. Perhaps wait with your "innocent" objections until she brings up each subject? Moral quandaries bother the mind for far longer than anything else. I think Jehovah-directed atrocities are the strongest contender for a lasting impression.

38

I yelled at dubs today ( again )

by kairos in

jw
friends

so i roll up to the job site and looky there, two uber pioneer dubs dragging themselves down the sidewalk.

both ladies are in there early 60's and born in.. my heart started pumping, but i had to act.i was directly across the street from them.

i walked right to the sidewalk and said in a very loud, but not mean voice: "you can't teach overlapping generations from the bible!!

StarryNight9

hehehe.... what about printing up some custom "tracts" (JWfacts, etc...), stand by their cart, and hand out the "tracts" to everyone who passes by?

*don't even bother with the witnesses. They can't complain about someone standing on a public sidewalk - they're doing the same thing!

17

JWs using 'apostate' phraseology?

by neat blue dog in

i've mentioned before how a regular pioneer used the phrases "tight-pants tony" and "don't drink the kool-aid".

well the other week, a different regular pioneer, and elderly one in fact, was talking about the simplified watchtower being discontinued and the normal one replacing it, and she said 'i guess they're just gonna dumb-down everything'.

then too even the org itself used the words "fade" and "shun" in recent articles, words that were previously shied away from.. anybody here experienced something similar, a seeming pimi saying something that makes you wonder if they've been sneaking ex-jw 'spiritual food' on the side?.

StarryNight9

I'd love to know what percentage of JWs are PIMO (or more PIMO than PIMI)? I bet it's quite high, but also quite hidden. If the shunning stuff was dropped there would be a major exodus.

90

Is attendance down in your location too?

by StarryNight9 in

jw
friends

i was commenting on another thread about how local kh attendance is down.

memorial attendance was also way down and the circuit assembly had hundreds less people than what is typical.

my jw family has even mentioned it.

StarryNight9

No merges here, just super-declining attendance. Merges here (rural area) would simply cut off all but the most die-hard JWs since the KHs can be spaced over an hour apart. A sell-off would increase some of the current travel times from 50 minutes to almost 2 hours (one-way).