Posts by Trotafox

27

First and the Last of Rev 1:17 - why in caps?

by Trotafox in

jw
friends

referring to the excellent "kitchen" witness scene in gregbetre's thread regarding jw's denying the deity of the christ, i do have one question..... .

rev 1:8; 17-18; 22:13 states that jesus christ is the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, and the beginning and the end.

i don't think it is true that all jw's will say that rev 1:17 refers to jehovah.

Trotafox

Ah, Dakota (Lew), please don't feel that way. Sometimes we all get so involved in the nit-pickin of everything that we forget about seeing the whole picture. I have no problem with the Bible and do not doubt it's inspiraton. God can protect his Word. The only time I get nit-picky is when I'm trying to understand how in tarnation JW's get their incredibly stupid ideas. It's never to convince myself; I don't need convincing but JW's do.

My personal thought is that the JW's capitalized "First and the Last" in Rev 1:17 to go along with a Title meaning that it is not to be understood in the same context as the other verses mentioning "first and the last" but if anyone had the TIME or INCLINATION (and, of course, JW's noses are forever at the grind stone) they would see that all the "first and the last" verses refer to God and the deity of the Christ.

DJ: The Isaiah 44:6 is interesting. Good grief. If the Dubs would just THINK and do a little research they could see how twisted the WT teachings are. It's really a shame that they deny Jesus as God.

pomegranate: To tell you the truth, the Trinity is not really that hard to understand. Just hard to explain. It's just a realization that fianlly came together for me after leaving JW's. I rejected the Trinity all my life because it sounded illogical and no one could every explain it to me properly. That's one of the reasons, I think, I fell for the JW's bologna that Jesus was not God. And I think that suckered my best friend into it also (plus the prospect of Paradise Earth so she would see her Mother again). Ah yes....they always manage to pick on the vulnerable!

Trot

12

JW HISTORY (DIscussion on Watchtower errors)

by gregbetre in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses.

ed decker lecture notes.

i want to deal with the very important subject of the watchtower bible and tract society headquartered in brooklyn, new york.

Trotafox

Well, no one seems to be answering the post I started on a question I have on this subject, I'll try it here:

Rev 1:8; 17-18; 22:13 states that Jesus Christ is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, and the beginning and the end. I don't think it is true that all JW's will say that Rev 1:17 refers to Jehovah. The reason I say this? In referencing my NWT, I have marginal notes by Rev 1:17 that indicates the WTS is teaching that the First and the Last [note cap case] is "a title bestowed upon Jesus by God; calling attention to his unique resurrection." So somewhere down the line they are teaching that Rev 1:17 does refer to Jesus and not Jehovah as Ron Carlson's JW's stated in his kitchen.

If this is the case, how in the world do they deny the deity of Christ when they go back to Rev 22:13 that states that the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, and the beginning and the end all all the same? Evidently the Dubs have not taken the trouble to look at the two verses side by side (and neither does the WTS and we no why).

Also interesting is their use of the caps case in "First and the Last" in the NWT. Check out the WTS's own Greek Interlinear Translation. I don't know Greek, but I do have eyes. The Greek words used for "first and the last" are identical to those used in both Rev 1:17 and Rev 22:13. Someone correct me if this is wrong. Why does the WTS choose to capitalize them in Rev 1:17? The NASB version does not capitalize the first and the last in either verse.

Any clue?

Trot (of the just curious and furious class)

12

JW HISTORY (DIscussion on Watchtower errors)

by gregbetre in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses.

ed decker lecture notes.

i want to deal with the very important subject of the watchtower bible and tract society headquartered in brooklyn, new york.

Trotafox

Have one question though. Have made separate post called First and Last of Erev 1:17 - Why in caps?

Trot

27

First and the Last of Rev 1:17 - why in caps?

by Trotafox in

jw
friends

referring to the excellent "kitchen" witness scene in gregbetre's thread regarding jw's denying the deity of the christ, i do have one question..... .

rev 1:8; 17-18; 22:13 states that jesus christ is the alpha and the omega, the first and the last, and the beginning and the end.

i don't think it is true that all jw's will say that rev 1:17 refers to jehovah.

Trotafox

Referring to the excellent "kitchen" witness scene in gregbetre's thread regarding JW's denying the deity of the Christ, I do have one question.....

Rev 1:8; 17-18; 22:13 states that Jesus Christ is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, and the beginning and the end. I don't think it is true that all JW's will say that Rev 1:17 refers to Jehovah. The reason I say this? In referencing my NWT, I have marginal notes by Rev 1:17 that indicates the WTS is teaching that the First and the Last [note cap case] is "a title bestowed upon Jesus by God; calling attention to his unique resurrection." So somewhere down the line they are teaching that Rev 1:17 does refer to Jesus and not Jehovah as Ron Carlson's JW's stated in his kitchen.

If this is the case, how in the world do they deny the deity of Christ when they go back to Rev 22:13 that states that the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last, and the beginning and the end all all the same? Evidently the Dubs have not taken the trouble to look at the two verses side by side (and neither does the WTS and we no why).

Also interesting is their use of the caps case in "First and the Last" in the NWT. Check out the WTS's own Greek Interlinear Translation. I don't know Greek, but I do have eyes. The Greek words used for "first and the last" are identical to those used in both Rev 1:17 and Rev 22:13. Someone correct me if this is wrong. Why does the WTS choose to capitalize them in Rev 1:17? The NASB version does not capitalize the first and the last in either verse.

Any clue?

Trot (of the just curious and furious class)

Edited by - Trotafox on 15 September 2002 16:16:12

Edited by - Trotafox on 15 September 2002 16:17:37

12

JW HISTORY (DIscussion on Watchtower errors)

by gregbetre in

jw
friends

jehovah's witnesses.

ed decker lecture notes.

i want to deal with the very important subject of the watchtower bible and tract society headquartered in brooklyn, new york.

Trotafox

Thank you, gregbetre. It's a keeper.

Trot

23

I am new to this site.... I wish to tell my story.

by Cyn in

my name is cynthia... i have had depression as a child ( undiagnosed ) father was possibly bipolar and mother is depressive both undiagnosed.....my journry into the org along with how the depression became a mental breakdown , which i thought was jehovah removing his spirirt.

my sruggle with the elders......and the many ways and people i sought help from.....well it is all a long story......... included in it.

jws i have known with mental health issues.......breakdowns.......psych docs have had discussed this with........ i would like to relate my story.....i was so ill..nearly catotonic i did not go to a hospital but if i relate how i felt.........it was clear...... how i was afraid of crossing the street because the green light may have been really a red light and i was told so often by the elders that my thinking was wrong...... ie " they were showing love by isolating me ( a depressed person) because i needed to be active and i was not complying..they said they tried ll that they coudl when in reality it was i always i that reached out to them ( thinking they were chosen of god)...... well..i just gave a sampler....my story is very long...i have been tenatious i read so much ( even before becoming a jw ) about depression and dysfunctional families... i was a teacher did not gte my ma ..people here know why i am sure..... well...before i write this story of mine...i would like to ask..if i can do it in intallments........those i relate my story to say i should write a book..........i am not " out of the woods yet".........by the way.......i came to the point that i could not leave my room..... i live in nyc and i was able to speak to bethel elders including g. gangus.... i was very sincere......naive idealistic.............i asked qiestions thinking that surly god understood ...that my motives were good... .