troubled

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Posts by troubled

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  14

  JWs Message: ``How Great Are We?"

  by Room 215 in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  with their chronology in tatters, jehovah's witnesses have taken to preaching about their favorite subject: themselves.

  i was taken to task when i made this suggestion in a thread not too long ago, but the october km furnishes abundant evidence in its list of available videocasette.. (as an aside, it seems that the society no longer objects to using the television as a medium to spread its message, now that technology's given it a way to make the viewer pay for tapes, rather than having to spend money on paid programming).. notice the titles: .

  ``united by divine teaching''.

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  troubled

  I agree that as JWs, we can sometimes go overboard on the "we're good; they're bad" message. I also agree, however, with the poster who said every organization that wants to gain adherents resorts to some level of self-promotion. The fact is, as human, we do it ourselves.

  For instance, on a first date, how many of us are going to come right out and honestly list all of our faults and idiosyncracies? I can see it right now.

  "Well, Don, I hope we can see more of each other. By the way, if you haven't noticed, my breath can knock over the Leaning Tower of Pisa. Also, I'm stingy with my money, pout when I don't get my way, and have a credit card the size of the Goodyear Blimp. Just wanted to be honest, y'know. But really, I hope we can go out again soon."

  In real life, when you want to impress, you "accentuate the positive." (Hey, isn't that part of a song?) Yes, it's a form of manipulation/persuasion. But it's quite common and not at all isolated to the WTBTS. I'm not saying it's always good. I'm just saying it's universal.
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  52

  Active JW's Who Question The UN/WTBTS...

  by zev in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  one question.

  have any of you who have written to the borganization, about the un/wtbts relationship, heard any replys?

  i know many of you have.. i'm not looking for details, though you can include them as you see fit.. a yes or no will do for now.. thanks so much.. .

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  troubled

  I haven't written yet, but most likely will do so. I've printed out the before and after NGO lists, the letter from UN's NGO/DPI, the Guardian article, and the Society's British office reply to the article. I'm reading and discussing it with an open-minded sister at the Hall, as well as waiting to see if our upcoming CO's visit in January and/or any WT or Awake articles in the next 2 or 3 months address the issue.

  If after all the above, I don't feel I have satisfactory, reasonable, Bible-based explanations about the whoe WTBTS/UN thing (or if I read/hear/see conflicting explanations), I will write to the Society about it, attach all of my information with it, and give a copy of the letter to every elder in our Hall.

  If anyone has received a reply to their letters, I, too, am very interested in seeing it.
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  23

  JW's - Do You Willingly Obey The Slave?

  by TR in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

  edmund burke

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  troubled

  Seeker,

  You said:

  "I respectfully disagree. God's law has said to kill in the past."

  Yes. Why God's Word condoned murder in the past days of the Israelites is a whole other subject worthy of discussion. However, since the institution of the Christian congregation, God's Law forbids such murder. That's pretty clearly outlined in the Greek scriptures.

  You said:

  "All it would take is a few misapplied scriptures in the WT, and the deed would be done."

  If so, the individual that performs that heinous deed has failed a test of loyalty to God, because either (1) they are not a diligent enough student of the Bible to recognize misapplied Scripture or (2) they recognize the scripture is misapplied, but choose to obey man as ruler, rather than God.

  The Bible holds the Boreans up as "noble minded" because they didn't mindlessly believe what they were told, but "checked the Scriptures daily as to whether these things were so." Even though I believe the GB is His earthly channel, they are not beyond making mistakes. The "Proclaimers" book states they are "not infallible."

  I think Jehovah expects us to be as diligent as the Boreans in our study of the Bible. We are under no obligation by God to do anything contrary to scripture, no matter who is doing the admonishing (even if, according to Revelation I think?, even if it comes as a declaration by an angel that contradicted scripture.

  So according to the Bible, human dictates would certainly fall under scrutiny, even if part of God's earthly organization. Unless I'm losing my marbles, that's the way I understand it anyway.

  You said:

  "For example, there is no greater law than Love, right? Yet what are JWs told to do when a relative is DFed? Right, to ignore the law of love and cut that person off as if they were dead." . . . "You would think most reasoning JWs would point out that Jesus spoke with and showed kindness to 'men of the nations,' and that the primary law is that of love."

  Yes, Jesus showed love to people of the nations and, at times, let love override law. A small minority of JWs have taken the same approach to speaking with disfellowshipped ones, though they are probably a small percentage overall.

  So are we disloyal JWs? Depends on how you look at it. Were the leprous men who approached Jesus disloyal for violating the law to stay hidden away? Was Abigail disloyal for acting against her husband Nabal's wishes (her head) in providing food for David and his armies? Not everything is clear cut. Personally, when all is said and done, I am glad Jehovah is going to judge me, rather than any short-sighted, well-meaning but sometimes flawed, human.

  Until then, we do the best we can with the information we have. For most of you, it's to stay outside the organization. For me, it is to stay in, but with eyes open. To try to set a good example. And to show relative subjection to God's organization and ultimate loyalty to Jehovah God.
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  23

  JW's - Do You Willingly Obey The Slave?

  by TR in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

  edmund burke

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  troubled

  Anon,

  Feel free to express your concerns here. I will read them and respond.
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  23

  JW's - Do You Willingly Obey The Slave?

  by TR in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

  edmund burke

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  troubled

  p.s.

  JWs are taught that subjection to humans is "relative." If any human told us to do something against God's law (which killing is), we are to "obey God as ruler rather than men." This would apply even to the GB.

  Therefore, even if the GB told JWs to go out and kill opposers (so unlikely!!!), any rational WT who understands the matter of total subjection to God vs. relative subjection to humans would object.

  But like I said before, a small percentage of unbalanced ones may follow suit (the same way a small percentage of unbalanced persons in the world would do as well). Obviously, though, that sort of blind obedience would betray a total lack of understanding as to what Christian loyalty really means.
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  23

  JW's - Do You Willingly Obey The Slave?

  by TR in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .

  the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

  edmund burke

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  troubled

  TR,

  I agree, there could well be a few unstable JWs who would be obedient to such an extreme. But my point is that, in the GENERAL POPULATION, there also exist a small percentage of unstable persons who would be equally influenced by an invididual, group, or religion to commit murder. And in OTHER RELIGIONS, there are those who would be (and are!) similarly influenced.

  For instance, isn't the war between Catholics and Protestants in Northern Ireland a religious war? Are they not killing out of a sense of loyalty to their religious views and under the influence of their religious leaders who encourage such action?

  Isn't the current situation in Afghanistan involve committing murder due to blind loyalty to one's religion and those in positions of authority who advocate this "holy war?"

  That's why I said your argument is a moot point. You sounded like you were singling out JWs are especially prone to such behavior, when, in fact, it is true of humans in general. They are easily influenced by the atmosphere they are immersed in, be it religious, political, or social.

  p.s. Thanks for correcting my (mis)spelling.
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  23

  JW's - Do You Willingly Obey The Slave?

  by TR in

  1. jw
  2. friends

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  the only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.

  edmund burke

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  troubled

  JT:

  You said,

  "Perhaps not you, but Out of (6-15+ million perhaps) folks who are JW either Active or inactive I'm sure with the right WT articles and "Scriptual" support you could indeed find at least 19 folks who would"

  By the same token, such is also the case if you took 6-15+ million random folks, now isn't it? So it's a mute point.

  What a waste of a thread.
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  10

  What is the purpose of this board?

  by abcde in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i just found this board.

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  troubled

  This is mainly an ex-JW website (ratio of ex to inactive JW probably 20:1)(ratio of ex to active JW probably 30:1). (Not mathematically correct; just my guess).

  Most posters are here to expose the negative things the Society has done, to gain support from other ex-JWs, and to assist currently unhappy JWs who want to leave the organization.

  A small number of JWs post here. They usually do not post long, as they soon realize they are far outnumbered by ex-JWs and any opinion that sounds pro-JW precipitates an onslaught of personal attacks by some. That's why I rarely post.

  I know of only two constant posters who claim to be active, pro-JWs: "Fred Hall" and "You Know". However, I've read numerous posts by them, and neither sounds much like a JW. Particularly Fred.

  If you are a current JW with doubts, questions, or seeking information, be prepared for a great deal of negative JW information. Some of it is true and referenced; some is exaggerated or false.

  If you want to avoid attacks or being pulled into fruitless arguments, look for those who can respond to your posts in a reasonable, nonattacking way (ones like Seeker, Larc, and Prisca come to mind).

  If you are an ex-JW or unhappy current JW, you will probably receive a warm welcome, though even ex-JWs sometimes attack one another vehemently.

  There's some truthful info here, but the atmosphere is harsh, driving many sensitive, peace-loving people away.

  Just my 2 cents worth.
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  12

  I GOT TWO NEW RETURN VISITS TODAY!!

  by Ranchette in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i do have two new return visits but they are not from field service.. my womens club went to a local nursing home today.

  we brought the elderly gifts, we sang songs with them, and we brought our pets, and listened to them.

  they were so happy to see us and share some of their lifes experiences with us.. it was different to go to a nursing home with no ulterior motives like pushing jw literature.. it felt right to just give them what they wanted most.

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  troubled

  Hi All,

  I agree that, in general, JWs do not perform community work other than the field ministry. However, that is not true of all JWs. For example, one of my JW friends is participating in this Sunday's "Race for a Cure" walk for breast cancer awareness. No JW strings there...
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  7

  Exit Counseling: Your experiences?

  by detective in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  since the topic came up on another thread, let's give it a go of it's own.

  what experiences have you had with exit counselling?

  have you tried to counsel others?

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  troubled

  Dungbeetle,

  I find your comment interesting:

  "I can never stress enough - NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER NEVER say anything bad about the religion you are trying to get someone out of."

  Oh, you mean like your reply to my post in the thread "Watchtower Exploitation Begins?" where you say:

  "Yeah you JW's just DO that...
  jehovah's witnesses have been practicing psychological terrorism for close on to 122 years...JW's had BETTER go door to door with a 'message of hope and comfort'...WT owes the world a debt that can never be repaid as far as I'm concerned.

  jehovah' witnesses have been responsible for the deaths of more people than the Branch Davidians and People's Temple...JW's had BETTER go door to door with a 'message of hope and comfort'. It's the least you can do ...finally!!"

  I found your comments to my post offensive and hateful. Maybe you need to work on your "people skills."