Zev,
I can't find your personal experience!!! Am I brain dead, or what? Could you tell me where the link is under "Personal Experiencs?" or which thread you started there? I really did want to read it.
troubled
JoinedPosts by troubled
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16
when jdubs accuse!
by zev intonight i was at a fellow jdubs house.. there was 3 couples.
my wife was in the can.
somehow, in the split second she dissappeared, the conversation turned to pedophiles, catholic priest and how they cover it up.
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night you will be disfellow or reproved should u?.
by jazz ingo to the hall and face the music or stay home and watch t.v this thought went through my head when an elder asked a sister if her husband was to embarrased to sit in the hall when they made the announcement what do you think?
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troubled
Thank you, I will look there.
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Am I The Only One................................?
by Big Jim inam i the only one that catches myself either whistling or humming kingdom songs?.
usually i catch myself before i go to far as not to embarase myself.. my wife who is still very active gets a pretty good charge when she catches me at it.. you would think after being away for almost six years that would not happen.. just wondering if it happens to any of you?
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troubled
Hi Not Blind,
It's true that not everyone gets into the singing. Not true of everyone though! Singing the songs is one of my favorite parts of the meeting, and I wish we did more singing. But I like singing in general, so that's probably why.
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night you will be disfellow or reproved should u?.
by jazz ingo to the hall and face the music or stay home and watch t.v this thought went through my head when an elder asked a sister if her husband was to embarrased to sit in the hall when they made the announcement what do you think?
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troubled
I, too, had more and more trouble (with my conscience) in ignoring DF'd and DA'd people at the meetings. I know what the scripture says about "not even saying a greeting," but I also know Jesus at times overrode the letter of the law with love.
Also, it seems to me if someone who is DF'd or DA'd is present at the announcement and continues meetings thereafter, then perhaps they have not totally abandoned the Truth, as others might claim.
In any case, I don't usually know the circumstances of the DFing or DAing. I still care about them as a fellow human created in God's image. Is saying a greeting to a DF'd or DA'd one condoning the wrong any more than talking to people at their doors is condoning their way of life? I know the answer usually given is "But the DF'd or DA'd one KNOWS what's right." However, the Bible also condemns judging our brother and says to forgive up to 77 times. So it doesn't seem all that clear cut to me.
So this is something I need to pray about.
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Judging Jehovah's Witnesses
by Kent inmore puke!.
judging jehovah's witnesses.
religious persecution and the dawn of the rights revolution.
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troubled
Trash or not, I plan to read this book in the same way I will examine "Crisis of Conscience." I need to examine both pro-JW and con-JW views. ("Con-JW," does that make sense?)
However, I agree with the above poster who said we need to keep in mind that JWs also insulted and harassed those in other religions with their placards, etc. Obviously, if the author is pro-JW, it will not address that aspect of it in the same way that a book that is against JWs may purposely leave out positive aspects of the JWs.
Depending on whether the author is pro-JW or against them, it's almost impossible (if not completely impossible) to present an absolutely neutral, objective view.
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31
night you will be disfellow or reproved should u?.
by jazz ingo to the hall and face the music or stay home and watch t.v this thought went through my head when an elder asked a sister if her husband was to embarrased to sit in the hall when they made the announcement what do you think?
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troubled
Hi,
I think if I were ever DF'd, whether or not I was present for the announcement would depend on the situation. If it was because of gross wrongdoing, I probably wouldn't go. If I had decided to leave the organization anyway, I probably wouldn't go. But if I still felt a part of the organization and was being DF'd for expressing a wrong view and/or for something I didn't feel was justified, I might go. Just to show that I'm not feeling guilty, ashamed, or hiding.
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Motives
by msil inwhat are your motives for being here?.
1. to get information.
2. to slam the wtbs at every opportunity.
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troubled
#1
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16
when jdubs accuse!
by zev intonight i was at a fellow jdubs house.. there was 3 couples.
my wife was in the can.
somehow, in the split second she dissappeared, the conversation turned to pedophiles, catholic priest and how they cover it up.
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troubled
Hi Zev,
Thank you for trusting me with your personal experience. I certainly will read it, give it thought, and then respond.
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16
when jdubs accuse!
by zev intonight i was at a fellow jdubs house.. there was 3 couples.
my wife was in the can.
somehow, in the split second she dissappeared, the conversation turned to pedophiles, catholic priest and how they cover it up.
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troubled
Thank you, Redhorse Woman, for your reassurance. I appreciate it so much.
Right now, everything is just plain scary. And I don't know where the journey will end. But onward I go. . .
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16
when jdubs accuse!
by zev intonight i was at a fellow jdubs house.. there was 3 couples.
my wife was in the can.
somehow, in the split second she dissappeared, the conversation turned to pedophiles, catholic priest and how they cover it up.
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troubled
Hi Zev,
I read your post, and I'm sorry to hear about your bad experience. I, too, have heard the friends at the Hall talk about how terrible it is that the Catholic Church covers up the activities of pedophiles. And it is always stated so self-assuredly, without any inkling that these things go on in Jehovah's organization too. It's a display of trust and naivety. I hate to admit, I've done (and said) the same things about the Catholic priests myself, in ignorance.
As one who was sexually abused as a child (not by a JW), I am disgusted whenever I read about pedophiles, particularly when they are allowed to repeat their actions or their activities are kept secret. So you can imagine how sick I felt at seeing information indicating that it might be happening in our own congregations! I'm having a hard time believing it. It makes my stomach hurt. But I am researching into it, as I have to know the truth.
I agree with the above suggestion: to tape the upcoming Dateline program when it airs. And encourage your wife to watch it. Or, if you know she will protest to watching it, plan ahead to be home and have the TV on that station when it is going to air. Then say, "Hon, come take a look at this!" That's what I plan to do with my husband.
Even though my hubby is disgruntled himself about things going on in our congregation, he is very against any type of negative-JW info from the outside, Internet info, etc. He considers it all "apostate crap." So I've not shared anything with him yet that I've read/learned about the Society. However, I will ask him to view the Dateline program. He knows I was sexually abused as a child (not by a JW), and how much I've struggled with this. If he sees the Dateline program, he will either be disgusted/shocked to learn it is going on in Jehovah's organization, or he will not believe it and say it is just a bunch of "apostate lies." I'm not sure which. I'll be curious to know how your wife reacts.
I can empathize with your situation with your wife, and empathize with your wife as well. I myself have been very innocent/naive to any wrongdoing in the Hall. And if I ever got that disconcerting feeling, that knot in my stomach, or a doubtful thought, I put it out of my mind immediately, feeling intense guilt and disloyalty to Jehovah and his organization. I remember hearing others make negative statements and thinking "They're just spiritually weak" or "Satan's just trying to discourage them." So I understand where your wife is coming from. At the time, it seemed the RIGHT thing to do to just ignore ANY negative talk, however justified.
Your wife probably feels 100% that by refusing to acknowledge wrongdoing in the organization, she is doing what is "right" and being loyal to Jehovah. Reading over your post, I can't help but think that, unless/until SHE gets to a (mental/spiritual) place where she can open her eyes and see things realistically (both the good and the bad), without feeling guilt or disloyalty, you won't be able to FORCE her into that place. Trying to, before she's ready, might only make it worse for both of you. She will only think you spiritually weak, negative, and misled. Maybe when the Dateline program airs, the time will be right for you to approach her about this matter again.
Maybe when the time is right, you could ask her to consider these questions (some of the things I've been asking myself, as I wrestle with the "loyalty to those taking the lead/loyalty to Jehovah/loyalty to the standard of Truth" battle in my own mind):
The Bible's describes Jehovah as the God of Truth who cannot lie, how he hates deception, etc. Does Jehovah would consider it "loving" to overlook gross wrongdoing in our congregations? Did Jesus do it in the first century? Will Jehovah do it at Armageddon? Do we overlook gross wrongs in other religions? Does Jehovah want us to follow a double standard? If something is true, does turning our back and closing our mind to it make it go away?
Yes, the Bible says to be submissive to those taking the lead. But it also denounces those carrying on a lie or covering over deception. Perhaps we have a moral obligation to expose gross wrongdoing in our ranks when we become aware of it. The Society asks us to report gross wrongdoing in publishers (if they don't confess). Doesn't the same standard apply to all in the congregation, regardless of their position? After all, our loyalty to any man is still relative to our loyalty to God.
Of course, there's the flip-side view: to forgive 77 times, turn the other cheek, don't pick at the straw in your brother's eye when there's a rafter in your own, chalk things up to human imperfection, etc. But somewhere there must be a line between forgiving minor offences and overlooking gross wrongs that destroy people's lives. Personally, I don't know where that line is. Hence, just stuck in the "thinking, weighing, researching" mode. Yet I keep thinking that, as a God of Truth, Jehovah would expect us to hold ourselves up to the same light of scrutiny that we shine on others, the same standard of truth. After all, we call our religion "the TRUTH." And the subject of pedophiles in the congregation seems, to me, to be a "rafter" and not a "straw."
I don't know if any of this will help you or your wife. I'm just thinking out loud and trying to reconcile some of these same issues in my own mind. I've not left Jehovah's organization. I've not make any hard fast judgments. I'm just trying to keep my eyes and mind open, and apply to myself what I ask others to apply to themselves when I go to their door. Maybe in time, your wife will see that is not such a terrible sin after all, but what Jehovah expects us to do.
Perhaps with time, your wife will be in a place where you can talk honestly and openly about the organization, without guilt and fear shutting everything down communication. That's what I'm hoping for your marriage anyway. That's what I'm hoping for mine.
As a still-active JW who WANTS to believe in the goodness and altruism of Jehovah's organization, I can understand where your wife is coming from. Even now, I'm still hoping to find good, solid explanations for the info I'm finding. I want VERY MUCH for the allegations to be wrong. The only difference between me and your wife is that I've gotten past the point where I feel I CANNOT look at the evidence from both sides, without feelihg horribly guilty and disloyal to Jehovah.
As I said, if I can prove the allegations are false, I will be so very happy and relieved. If not, it will be incredibly sad and painful. My whole world would seem to crumble before me. But either way, if I'm basing my life on this, I need to know the truth. And maybe your wife will see it this way too, in time.