Posts by troubled

13

to violet

by troubled in

jw
friends

hi violet,.

i've been reading your posts but haven't responded until now.

at this point, i'll say a couple of things.

I've been reading your posts but haven't responded until now. At this point, I'll say a couple of things. For one, don't take Dungbeetle's posts personally. This person verbally abuses anyone who defends the WTS in any way and is prone to calling them trolls as well. I know, because it happened to me when I posted more regularly.

I can understand your wanting to remain a JW, even though you've had some bad experiences yourself. I feel that way too. That is your personal choice, just as it was the personal choice of most on this forum to leave.

Violet, no matter which way you go, you'll have a group of "supporters" who favor your decision. So think, research, pray, and make up your own mind.

You don't need to justify your decision to any group of humans, including the people on this board.

33

Questions to ask the Dub at your door

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

when you next have a visit from a dub, what will you say?.

perhaps you should have some quickfire questions ready to ask them.

1. how come jesus kicked satan out of heaven in october 1914, at the end of the gentile times, when satan had started ww1 to distract attention from the kingdom's establishment around july 1914 ?.

troubled

Ozzie,

Yes, I was a little touchy. I've been called a troll several times and thought your reference to an apologist might be hinting at the same thing.

Considering the dictionary's definition of an apologist as one who "defends" a faith or belief system, I guess I am, although I am open minded enough to search, as the Boreans did, to make sure the things taught are "really so."

p.s. I will check out the 1975 WT.

33

Questions to ask the Dub at your door

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

when you next have a visit from a dub, what will you say?.

perhaps you should have some quickfire questions ready to ask them.

1. how come jesus kicked satan out of heaven in october 1914, at the end of the gentile times, when satan had started ww1 to distract attention from the kingdom's establishment around july 1914 ?.

troubled

Ozzie,

You said:

"I assume you are a WTS apologist, so I will respond this time only"

Assume what you want to. Respond or not as you see fit.

You said:

"Which Bible prophecies? I notice you use the word "point" rather than "state". A typical WTS device. Which teaching of Jesus could you show?"

Ozzie, I had in mind the prophecy of the 69 weeks of years. But you asked for a teaching from Jesus. So I'll add this: the incidents in Matthew chapter 24.

Yes, I used the word "point." I'm sure you'll agree that not everything in the Bible is explicitly stated. Jesus used illustrations, object lessons, etc. He also said at Matthew 6, we would have to dig and search as for hid treasures to understand the knowledge of God.

Are you implying that if something isn't clearly stated (1914), it must not be true? This isn't logical. A person may be a thief and never "state" that to anyone. Does that mean he is isn't a thief?

You said:

"Then what is the point of his statement of reassurance found at Matthew 28:20 "And, look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things" ?"

Jesus would be with them in the sense that he would be aware of their activites on earth and bless their sincere efforts to follow in his footsteps. He didn't say he'd have a faithful slave from 33-1914 to do that.

You said:

"Straight out of the publications! But where does it state that in scripture?"

It says in Psalms that Jesus would begin ruling in the midst of his enemies. So his "return" as king in 1914 would have to be separate from his later "return" as executioner at Armageddon. (Because his return as executioner would mean the end of his enemies.)

p.s. I am not a troll or "planted" by the Society. I'm a JW sister with concerns, who is trying to find out if there are logical, biblical answers to the objections made on this forum. Frankly, it's getting a little tiring explaining myself over and over.

Ask Larc if it will make you feel better. He knows. However, you have a right to believe whatever you want to about me. And I have a right to post on this board without having to justify myself every 5 minutes.

And THAT, Ozzie, is the TRUTH.

43

What does your ID or Nick say about you?

by LyinEyes in

jw
friends

someone replied to a post i entered and got me thinking what others perceive about us due to the nicks or id we have chosen.

some of the nicks i am sure are just self explanatory , others are cute, or simple.

although i suspect that very many in this room,took time to think of theirs and definitly the nick holds some little secret as to who they are as a person.

troubled

Troubled - About things inside and outside the organization.

33

Questions to ask the Dub at your door

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

when you next have a visit from a dub, what will you say?.

perhaps you should have some quickfire questions ready to ask them.

1. how come jesus kicked satan out of heaven in october 1914, at the end of the gentile times, when satan had started ww1 to distract attention from the kingdom's establishment around july 1914 ?.

troubled

to top

33

Questions to ask the Dub at your door

by ozziepost in

jw
friends

when you next have a visit from a dub, what will you say?.

perhaps you should have some quickfire questions ready to ask them.

1. how come jesus kicked satan out of heaven in october 1914, at the end of the gentile times, when satan had started ww1 to distract attention from the kingdom's establishment around july 1914 ?.

troubled

1. How come Jesus kicked Satan out of heaven in October 1914, at the end of the Gentile Times, when Satan had started WW1 to distract attention from the KIngdom's establishment around July 1914 ?

Whether Christ kicked Satan out of heaven at the beginning of WWI or 3 months later doesn't strike me as a big deal. Why would you ask that particular question? I'm assuming it would be to introduce doubt about the validity of the year 1914. That wouldn't do it, since other Bible prophecies also point to that year.

2. Who was the Faithful & Discreet Slave BEFORE 1914? Who was it around the year (pick any date) ?

The Bible doesn't indicate that there has ALWAYS been a "faithful and discreet slave" on the earth. After the removal of the last God-appointed human king on earth, Bible prophecy indicated there would be no divine rulership until "He comes who has the legal right, and I shall give it to him" (Christ - 1914+). Then after Christ's enthronement, he would appoint a "faithful slave" to dispense spiritual food. (Post-1914).

3. If Jesus came in 1914, why do you still have the Memorial, because the Bible tells us to do it "until he arrives" ? (1 Cor 11:26)

Jesus was enthroned in heaven in 1914, but has not "arrived" in the sense of bringing Armageddon and ushering in the new system.

25

Disturbing material in May 15, 2002 Watchtower

by spender in

in the questions from readers section, the question was: "would it be advisable for a true christian to attend a funeral or a wedding in a church?".

to analyze this wonderful piece, i'm going to use their words, and translate them into real english.. "being in a group where everyone else is engaging in a false religious act, a christian may find it difficult to resist the pressure to join in.

how unwise to expose oneself to such pressure!".

troubled

To NameWithheld,

Yes, some JWs in the organization DO take advice/admonition and turn it into a congregational "rule." And perhaps some JWs will unofficially "mark." But individuals who do so aren't mature enough to understand the issue of free will and the difference between scriptural principle and Bible law.

The point remains that an individual still has the CHOICE whether or not to attend the funeral. There is no Bible rule on this, but there are principles to consider. So it often boils down to:

(1) I care most about what my fellow JWs will think of me, and therefore WON'T go.

Or

(2) I care more about attending the funeral of a close friend/family member than what my fellow JWs think of me, and therefore I WILL go.

But maybe the correct view is:

(3) I care most about what Jehovah thinks of me. What would He want me to do? Let's see, there is no set Bible rule, but there are principles to consider. OK, I've considered the principles that apply, what do I CHOOSE to do?

Yes, if a JW decides to go to the funeral, they run the risk of being labeled "disobedient" or "weak" by some in the congregation. But no matter what choices you make in life, there will always be someone who disagrees or who judges you unfairly. That's true whether you are a JW or not.

Sure, it hurts to have some people judge or view you as "weak" for making a decision that is your own right to make. But not every JW is going to judge you. Not those who can determine the difference between scriptural principle and Bible law and who recognize an individual's right to free choice in the matter.

25

Disturbing material in May 15, 2002 Watchtower

by spender in

in the questions from readers section, the question was: "would it be advisable for a true christian to attend a funeral or a wedding in a church?".

to analyze this wonderful piece, i'm going to use their words, and translate them into real english.. "being in a group where everyone else is engaging in a false religious act, a christian may find it difficult to resist the pressure to join in.

how unwise to expose oneself to such pressure!".

troubled

Just a comment on this.

You said,

"If you go to a funeral, you're going to be marked."

Not true. Granted, the article is written in a way that advises against going, but end of article still leaves the decision up to the individual JW. I know, I read it myself.

p.s. Many JWs I know have gone to funerals for close family members (myself included) and were not marked for it.

17

"You Are Expected to Believe As We Do&quot...

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

i am currently having visits made on me by the elders,who are trying to help me "unbelieve" the things i have learned to be true from the bible, which naturally contradict wt doctrine.. as well as asking me "where else will you go" they said that members of the public walking into a kingdom hall expect all within it to be jehovah's witnesses holding firmly to their doctrines and not holding divergent viewpoints like i do.

they said it would not be proper for someone to hold a belief that was contrary to the society and still be expected to remain a jw, even in name only.

i have stated to them that i can no longer preach the wt version of the "good news" so they automatically assumed that i am not obeying jesus' command to preach.. i am in a bit of a predicament as you can see.

troubled

Ozzie,

Being considered a "cult" by others doesn't necessarily mean a religion is wrong. In the Art History class I am taking, it is clear that early Christians were considered a "cult" religion by many. They were clearly "in the minority," compared to the practicing Jews and pagan religions of Greece and Rome. Since we are to follow in Christ's footsteps, to be similarly labeled is not necessarily a bad thing.

Also, Jesus followers were expected to "conform" to the new teachings he was introducing (such as the acceptability of men of the 'nations' who would embrace his message and the value of the ransom).

Unity too was expected. For example, counsel in Revelation directed to the seven congregations addressed a lack of unity as one of the problems that had arisen and needed correction.

17

"You Are Expected to Believe As We Do&quot...

by stevieb1 in

jw
friends

i am currently having visits made on me by the elders,who are trying to help me "unbelieve" the things i have learned to be true from the bible, which naturally contradict wt doctrine.. as well as asking me "where else will you go" they said that members of the public walking into a kingdom hall expect all within it to be jehovah's witnesses holding firmly to their doctrines and not holding divergent viewpoints like i do.

they said it would not be proper for someone to hold a belief that was contrary to the society and still be expected to remain a jw, even in name only.

i have stated to them that i can no longer preach the wt version of the "good news" so they automatically assumed that i am not obeying jesus' command to preach.. i am in a bit of a predicament as you can see.

troubled

Back to top to make sure Stevieb1 sees it.

Also, a reconsideration of the "Amen" question. I had originally said go ahead and say "Amen," as no one can stop you and even visitors to the Hall who are not JW often do so.

However, I have reconsidered this. And I think I need to take back what I said and explain why.

An "Amen" said to a prayer is an agreement/endorsement of the thoughts spoken by the person who gives the prayer. You said there were some teachings you couldn't preach or agree to. If the person who gives the prayer expresses those thoughts/teachings you don't believe, then it wouldn't be appropriate to say "Amen" to it. That's probably what they tried to explain to you.

I think you have misinterpreted the situation. The point is not that the JWs "won't allow you to say Amen," but rather, if you don't agree with the prayer's content, it is pointless to say "Amen" to it. It would be agreeing with something you have said you don't agree with.