Posts by gingerbread

37

Do's and Dont's on debating JWs online

by Emery in

jw
friends

recently i have seen an increase number of former members trying to argue ttatt with jws on youtube, news articles, facebook and public forums.

for the most part, i do not see a lot of vicious or hostile debates when former members are trying to show ttatt, but i have seen some arguments and approaches turn out very ugly, to the point of many face palms.. i remember there were several instances that completely turned me off towards ttatt as a believer because "apostates" would be entirely reprehensible and would fit the bill of what the society termed "mentally diseased".

i cannot fault ones here who have gone on a similar rampage now that i understand how people lose everything and everyone they love.

gingerbread

The thinking process that is developed as a JW encourages that we are right about our beliefs - biblical & world history, prophecy, science, biblical applications, the universe, the future, etc... And, we had an "it's us against them" judgemental attitude. There are former JW's that have been treated very badly in their congregations and by their family & former friends. Their comments express the anger. And, unfortunatly I think, all too often they become bitter people who are determined to show how they are now right. Sure, we all began to question our beliefs - for different reasons. Some have reacted in anger, argued their points and were disfellowshipped or chose to disassociated themselves. My observation - in the US at least - is that considerable numbers are still "in" but quietly exiting - especially folks between the ages of 20 and 40.

It's a big mental step to just look at this forum. I lurked for some time before becoming a member. If JW.net was full of rage and anger, I would have never returned. Fortunately I found encouragement and practical advice.

51

Orangeburg Assembly Hall - designed to be sold as a future supermarket?

by cedars in

jw
friends

i've just been watching a youtube video that reveals the new assembly hall in orangeburg, sc.. two things struck me when watching it.... firstly, everything is attributed to jehovah, right down to deciding the location where the hall is to be built.

"we examined over 300 properties," said one interviewee, "we were reminded that jehovah knew where the site was, we just had to keep looking and show him that we were persistent.

" other workers interviewed throughout the video attribute everything to god, as though it is impossible to build anything without divine direction.. here is the video.... .

gingerbread

Cedars and OnTheWayOut - you're spot on.

I've been to this site in it's early stages. I would describe it at a "generic" complex with full retail or corporate potential. As I've mentioned in other posts, the WT Society is in this for the long term and the real estate / building arm has a lot of internal power.

Emery - You're right about counting time. Pioneers fill the RBC's because of the massive amount of hours they can claim during construction and renovation projects (they can also count time spent at funerals, hospital visits, etc...).

As Mark Twain is reported to have said "Buy land. They ain't makin' anymore of it!"

37

Is there a link between peaks in newbies and new light flashes?

by likeabird in

jw
friends

i hope you are all well and enjoying your saturday!.

it's really great seeing so many newbies, congratulations to each and everyone of you.

and welcome.. in any case, my question is the one i put in the title :.

gingerbread

The recent events that flipper refers to encouraged me to become a member. I've been regularly lurking - and researching - for almost two years. Being "raised in the truth" and now middle aged with a lot of family active, this is a big step! I'm currently "in" physically - still attending the Sunday meetings and fading discreetly.

As a side note, it was the encouragement and compassion that is expressed on this forum for folks like me - from former active publishers - that kept me coming back to this site. It's not the negative, judgemental, sophomoric expressions of some posters.

If I want to hear that everyday, I'd remain a Jehovah's Witness....

9

Question about unbaptised publishers

by XPeterX in

jws are over 7.5 million.do they count unbaptised publishers as jws?do we know how many baptised jws are there today?.

gingerbread

These are active publishers - regular or irregular - i.e. those who fill out and turn in a time slip.

43

Newbie - I need advice!

by awakening in

well here it is, my first post!

it feels like a huge step like the point of no return.

i am a born in, still in wanting to get out ms. i have refused eldership, used to pioneer and have sooo many stories.

gingerbread

Too many of us 'faders' feel phony in the beginning. Just remember that you are finally being honest with yourself!

I began to share some information bit by bit last year with my wife. But first I suggested that we do two things that the Society tells us to do: 1. read the Bible 2. research our "spiritual heritage" as JW's and the early organization. So...we began to read just the Bible. And watched the history videos. Then I shared more stuff about the early Society - belief origins/adventism/eschatology etc. from "neutral" sources like Wikipedia. I'm also underlining the WT study (something I haven't done in years) and highlighting the conjectures and assumptions made in every study that have no Biblical support. She is noticing and it's making for real, honest conversation about this belief system we were raised in.

It's working!

25

It Appears The Elderly Are More Taken Care Of Then Ever Before By The Elders

by minimus in

jw
friends

i usually find fault with the religion but i must give credit when due.

in the hall my mom is in, they regularly check on her and assign different ones to visit and check on the elderly.. if there's a storm or an extremely cold day, they come by to make sure the elderly have everything they need..

gingerbread

It sounds like this congregation has some good guys - and they just happen to be elders.

6

Sing it sister...

by cedars in

jw
friends

it amazes me how many jdubs feel comfortable posting videos of themselves (or their children) singing kingdom songs for the whole world to see on youtube.. this lady actually puts some effort into it.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ikpeixixlo4.

.

cedars.

gingerbread

I's my guess that these publishers are counting this as service time - in their own mind and on a time slip. With a growing push to find alternate ways to preach - letter writing, literature display stands and tables, emails - why not youtube.

In my part of the US, just about every congregation has young folks forming bands - country, bluegrass, cover rock, indie... They play at "get togethers" and the adventurous ones play their own private shows, local clubs, burning their own cd's, etc. It's sad - but it's their only chance of acheiving a personal fantasy. Their 15 minutes of fame.

27

Can't afford to pay Candace, but they can afford this:

by WinstonSmith in

http://thetandd.com/news/local/jehovah-s-witnesses-unveil-million-assembly-hall/article_82f68742-6776-11e2-a641-001a4bcf887a.html?comment_form=true.

gingerbread

The society's plan - at least in the United States - is to continue to build large, regional assembly halls. The objective is "to cut costs" by eliminating the need to rent large auditoriums and stadiums. They want to become as detached from the "world" as possible. And funnel the rental dollars into the "world wide work" fund. These building projects also gives the local congregations the psychological illusion that each member plays a part in the organization - a mini Bethel you might say. A section in the assembly hall is usually set aside as a "theocratic" museum filled with Watchtower artifacts.

The local Kingdom Halls are improved by the regional building committees in order to retain positive resale value. These are potentially flip-able. The investment in regional assembly halls are long term and "permanent". In conversations and prayers, you will hear talk of the hall's long term use - "right into the new system."

40

Another visit from the elders

by jonno12225 in

jw
friends

so i have another visit from the elder this week.

this time they want to speak with my wife, still a believer and myself.

i think they want to know my position about my children attending the meetings and some other things.. while preparing myself for it i though of a challenge for the elders and my wife.

gingerbread

Before you agree to a meeting, please read the upcoming April WT - Study Edition. (available at JW.org) These study articles define the organization and how your support of it's efforts and arrangements are necessary for your happiness and survival. A major shift in emphasis has begun within the congregations - to "assist" those with questions or doubts and are not as active as they once were. They want a confrontation. And will deal with you judicially. Even if the elders have been close friends, their job is to carry out the societies directives. If your wife (and her family) comes to the conclusion that your viewpoints are "endangering" her spiritually, she has grounds for separation - with full backing and support of the local elders.

21

Has disproving the "Truth" become an obsession for you at times?

by Pyramid Scheme in

jw
friends

i was curious if anyone else has gone through a similar experience.. when i became inactive 4 years ago, i went through a period of not being able to focus on just about anything, other than doing tremendous amounts of research to prove to myself what my beliefs were, and to clearly identify my issues with the jw organization.

i was mad - and i was on a mission to build the ultimate case against the wt.

however, having read the fine advice on here, i backed off with my family, since it would have just gotten ugly.. i avoided posting on here for years, and had cut down my research and put it on the back burner.. however, i still felt a need to "witness" to my family and to have an open discussion with my wife.

gingerbread

I echo your thoughts - both Pyramid Scheme and tornapart. If you were raised in the org with most family "in" as well as a lifetime of friendships, it's difficult to keep quiet. Two years ago I began my earnest research because of my own refusal to accept many organizational procedures and requirements - as man made/non-biblical. Mildly expressing my concerns and sharing evidence - over time - has helped my spouse to see the realities of the WTS. We now attend about half of the Sunday meetings - because of aged parents.

Remember: the WTS and the congregation's elders (put in place to enforce WT directives) want you to be emotional and confrontational. If one expresses doubts to them, their stance will change from "concerned" to aggressively offensive in a heart beat. They want to push you out of the congregation and force a separation of you from your family and friends. They want you to get disfellowshipped or for you to disassociate yourself. We've decided not to give them the power. Our lives are ours and we've decided to believe what we want to believe....and to maintain our relationships with family.