Posts by gingerbread

21

Can't be myself

by StephaneLaliberte in

[if gte mso 9]><xml> <w:worddocument> <w:view>normal</w:view> <w:zoom>0</w:zoom> <w:trackmoves /> <w:trackformatting /> <w:hyphenationzone>21</w:hyphenationzone> <w:punctuationkerning /> <w:validateagainstschemas /> <w:saveifxmlinvalid>false</w:saveifxmlinvalid> <w:ignoremixedcontent>false</w:ignoremixedcontent> <w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext>false</w:alwaysshowplaceholdertext> <w:donotpromoteqf /> <w:lidthemeother>fr</w:lidthemeother> <w:lidthemeasian>x-none</w:lidthemeasian> <w:lidthemecomplexscript>x-none</w:lidthemecomplexscript> <w:compatibility> <w:breakwrappedtables /> <w:snaptogridincell /> <w:wraptextwithpunct /> <w:useasianbreakrules /> <w:dontgrowautofit /> <w:splitpgbreakandparamark /> <w:dontvertaligncellwithsp /> <w:dontbreakconstrainedforcedtables /> <w:dontvertalignintxbx /> <w:word11kerningpairs /> <w:cachedcolbalance /> </w:compatibility> <w:browserlevel>microsoftinternetexplorer4</w:browserlevel> <m:mathpr> <m:mathfont m:val="cambria math" /> <m:brkbin m:val="before" /> <m:brkbinsub m:val="--" /> <m:smallfrac m:val="off" /> <m:dispdef /> <m:lmargin m:val="0" /> <m:rmargin m:val="0" /> <m:defjc m:val="centergroup" /> <m:wrapindent m:val="1440" /> <m:intlim m:val="subsup" /> <m:narylim m:val="undovr" /> </m:mathpr></w:worddocument> </xml><!

[endif]i had a diner with the neighbors... they don't know i'm a jw cause i don't tell people anymore about it.

somehow, the topic of cults came up and one of my neighbors said that the jw require 10% of their income to go to the church.

gingerbread

ecan6 You are experiencing something common to all JW's. We are trained to share only a part of ourselves with others - whether workmates, neighbors, friends, family...even spouses (read about how many on this forum are having difficulty talking with their husband or wife about doubt & their struggle with congnitive dissonance). As a true 'JW', our loyalty belongs only to God and the earthly organization.

We hide behind 'masks' so we don't expose our true feelings and thoughts. It's just part of being a Jehovah's Witness.

Deconstructing your belief system requires brutal personal honesty. Being honest with others will take some time.

62

Should all elders be painted with the same brush?

by Socrateswannabe in

jw
friends

an hour or two ago, i was reading a topic on this forum that welcomed new elders to jwn.

there was some criticism aimed at the op and i understand that elders shouldn't be singled out as special.

one poster said he/she hates all elders.

gingerbread

Socrates - I thought about your situation during the meeting today (my first Sunday meeting in a few weeks) and I looked around at the elders in attendance. They all looked really TIRED.

The youngest on the elder body is in his mid - 40's and the oldest is right at 65 ( a life long pioneer & elder). I felt a real sense of pity for them. I look forward to the BOE letters that Atlantis posts here - and I've become aware of the increased responsiblility and pressure put on these guys. It's form after form (in triplicate...) to be read, signed & filed. Old books and letters to be destroyed and instructions for the new ones are put in place. Add to that issues of kingdom hall trusteeship, insurance and upkeep. I'm sure the new doctrinal changes are on their minds - as some WILL question, have doubts or leave.

Many elders who are good, honest hearted people carry a lot of guilt around because of enforcing organizational directives.

62

Should all elders be painted with the same brush?

by Socrateswannabe in

jw
friends

an hour or two ago, i was reading a topic on this forum that welcomed new elders to jwn.

there was some criticism aimed at the op and i understand that elders shouldn't be singled out as special.

one poster said he/she hates all elders.

gingerbread

As we 'mature' in the organization we take on more 'privileges.' We feel good and know in our hearts and minds that it's the right thing to do. Our family applaudes us. Others compliment our advancement.

At some point most servants and elders will begin to see our religion for what it truly is - a faith based on legalism and not on undeserved kindness. It's the closeness of 'working together' in a congregation that we begin to see how it's all about rules, regulations and directives. Most that have been 'in the truth' for years (50 years for me) or generations (3 for me) will seek to justify the inequity of our religion by blaming it on another person i.e. that jackass elder. As elders, we see that the problems lays in the organizational structure (and the abuse of it).

As we begin to accept the realities of our religion, it also calls for personal honesty. We're used to group thinking and group control. Deciding to take control of your life (and the happiness of your family) takes real courage. You cannot please everyone. And, you can't walk on a tight rope forever.

57

The Elders want to meet with me ... (Judicial Meeting)

by Oubliette in

the elders want to meet with me.

at least that's what they keep telling me, and they've been saying it for more than a month and a half now.

just so you're clear: this is a judicial committee.

gingerbread

They'll meet with you either just before the C.O. visits or just after.

Be patient until then. Keep quite and keep up the appearance of humility. Look 'positive' when you attend the regular meetings at the hall. Highlight every page of any publication being discussed.

This religion has become all about numbers, procedures, rules and regulations. The elders are just following 'proper' procedure and following the directives from 'the branch.'

Unless one of the elders has something personal against you, this waiting game (and the reinstatement process) has nothing to do with you at all.

56

GB (Splane) says JW parent should "force" their children

by Gayle in

to go in "service," "baptism," etc.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsqmosgj710

gingerbread

The speakers that represent the WTBS - in this case a member of the GB - say things in talks that are only implied in print. A fading JW friend told me a couple of years ago that they tell us everything to our faces. It's just that after a while (years) we turn it off - it doesn't register in our minds anymore.

A few years ago, a circuit overseer commented - during a service coffee break - that the society is being (now more than ever) run like a 'business.' He was right!

McDonalds is an appropriate illustration for Splane to use. The employee structure in this company works. Hire young, energetic workers who are delighted with their first job - at minimum wage in the US. The store/corporate environment is all about working together and hittings goals. From this young employee pool the managers will groom future managers and weed out the slackers.

56

GB (Splane) says JW parent should "force" their children

by Gayle in

to go in "service," "baptism," etc.. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rsqmosgj710

gingerbread

We watched the original videos (posted on youtube) that Cedars took clips from (for the JWSurvey video) last night. The long version is worth watching!

Because the 'talk' is interrupted constantly by the interpreter, we could really listen to what Splane was saying. It seems to make him very uncomfortable. He continues his talking before the interpreter is finished. The arguments made become obviously asinine.

And the Bible is barely even refered to during the whole talk. It's all about organizational rules and guilt tripping.

My better half summed it up by saying "They've lost their minds. That guy couldn't even get a job a McDonalds."

21

1914 must go... they have no choice now (at least it would seem)

by sosoconfused in

i am sure this may have been discussed previously and if so just disregard this.. .

as a born-in 1914 is a date stamped into my head that is pretty much the foundation of our religious beliefs.

nearly everything that sets jw's apart from everyone is this date of 1914. forget all the chronology that proves that daniels prophecy and the 2520 years is incorrect - there is far worse damning evidence that makes this date useless and in error.. with the magazine that shines new light on the whole faithful slave thing - charles taze russell is no longer a member of that faithful slave class that jesus is using to feed his people./ by getting rid of russell the no doubt were able to distance themselves from all his crazy ramblings and teachings that are appearing all over the internet.

gingerbread

Twenty years ago the WT Society began to disconnect the date 1914 away from the understanding of "generation". I think 1914 will continue to be seen as a pivitol and historically important date in WT theology.

The current 1914 pickle they find themselves in is that the date 1914 is seen as the "end of the gentile times" - meaning the end of man made governments ruling without the intervention of God's heavenly kingdom. But, for 100 years now the governments/nations continue to manage the worlds affairs without divine judgement. That's rather odd...

When you begin to research the origins of these beliefs, the errors become brilliantly obvious. That's why C.T. Russell had to be demoted from the FDS. He is now being seen as filling the role as modern day John the Baptist - who announces the arrival of Jesus Christ.

So, Russell (John the Baptist) announces to the world the coming of the annointed Faithful and Discreet Slave (Jesus Christ). The FDS no longer exists as a class - all the annointed on earth - but has been reduced to the Governing Body (8 men) of Jehovah's Witnesses in New York.

Is that not a real twist of scripture??

41

exJW Psychology 101--Keeping Your Cool While Fading

by Billy the Ex-Bethelite in

jw
friends

in an effort to get some help and hopefully help others, i'd like to start this thread about psychology, specifically starting with the subject of anger management.. .

personally, i don't have much of a temper.

what i do have, i've learned to control.

gingerbread

This is the kind of practical information that those of us who are not disfellowshipped or disassociated and were born in/raised in need as we are exiting. Thank you Billy!

It's difficult enough just deconstruction ones belief system. Keeping the disbelief, frustration, anger and fear inside can become all consuming. I'm not an angry 'apostate' with a driving desire to 'expose' the WT or lash out at elders or family for what they hold to be true. And I'm not allowing resentment to overshadow the search for personal fulfillment and spiritual bliss.

53

Due to Ongoing Concern about Dwindling Meeting Attendances, IS THE BOOK STUDY ARRANGEMENT GOING TO BE RE-INSTATED NEXT YEAR?

by steve2 in

jw
friends

i have some family and friends still in the organization.

i don't actively seek updates - my lovely contacts provide me with them unsolicited.

so far the updates have been reliable and confirmed sooner or later by subsequent developments.

gingerbread

Agreeing with the posts above. In addition, the home based 'book study' won't be reinstituted for the following reasons: it's convenient for the publishers, it encourages social interaction, it strengthens personal relationships and newly interested ones are more likely to attend (for the first time) an informal meeting.

But the single most important reason: the 'book study' arrangement in homes does not generate income for the congregation/organization.

23

Maybe I am a little dense, but I just realized...

by DATA-DOG in

the wtbts teaches that, " the soul that is sinning..will die.

" this was re-hashed in the what is truth talk at the dc.

so i got to thinking about the wtbts's doctrine.

gingerbread

Research Adventist's "Soul Sleep."

Charles T. Russell borrowed this doctrine and it's been part of Bible Student and JW theology ever since!