luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.
nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.
now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.
Sea Breeze The KJV says that but many others do not.
NKJV - “No one has ascended to heaven but He who came down from heaven, that is, the Son of Man who is in heaven. [ftn] NU-Text omits who is in heaven.
NIV - No one has ever gone into heaven except the one who came from heaven—the Son of Man.
ESV - No one has ascended into heaven except he who descended from heaven, the Son of Man. The footnote says "Some manuscripts add who is in heaven"
luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.
nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.
now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.
The reason that this saying sits high with alot of people is not because of punctuation, but because people have the Oprah mentality.
You get to go to heaven.
You get to go to heaven.
You get to go to heaven.
People not only want all Christians to go to heaven, but they want all of Jesus' contemporaries that looked at him, the non-baptized ones, the prechristians like Moses, Elijah, and many others.
luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.
nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.
now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.
Fisherman said " The Bible says that Jesus was dead for 3 days so obviously the NWT comma is in the right place because Jesus did not go to paradise that day."
Right. It is so simple. People worry about commas and ignore the greater understanding of what dead is.
luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.
nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.
now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.
No, Easyprompt. Jehovah did not materialize a body to walk with Adam and Eve.
Gen 3:8 Christian Standard Bible "Then the man and his wife heard the sound of the LORD God walking in the garden at the time of the evening breeze, and they hid from the LORD God among the trees of the garden."
Walking in the garden does not mean he had legs and was walking. It is a Hebrew idiom. While the primary meaning is 'walk', it also means to move, traverse, coming, going. So the voice of God was simply moving about through the garden.
Nor did he materialize a body to talk to Moses face to face
Nor did he with Abraham.
Those are word expressions.
John 1:18 says No man has seen God.
Exodus 33:20 "And God said, Thou shalt not be able to see my face; for no man shall see my face, and live."
That does not contradict Jacob in Genesis 32:30 Berean Standard Bible "So Jacob named the place Peniel, saying, “Indeed, I have seen God face to face, and yet my life was spared.”"
Because he did not actually see the face of God. We all know that was an angel. As the Aramaic Bible in Plain English says "And Yaquuv called the name of that country, Penuyel, because, “I saw an Angel face to face and my life is saved.”"
luke 23:43 - and jesus said to him, "positively i say to you, today you will be with me in paradise.
nwt places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse.
now the average jw uses this to back their doctrine and it seems in itself virtually impossible to reason with them on it.
"NWT places comma here , giving a totally different meaning to the verse."
No, it does not. Jesus' words does not define life and death. What happens next is not defined by Jesus' words. Why is this scripture such an issue? It is as ridiculous as The Rich man and Lazarus.
Gasp, Jesus said something and it changes all reality.
No, that is not how it works.
Reality is reality. Jesus being God's son does not change that. Sure, he did miracles, but this is not one of them. A dead man did not go to paradise.
Mark 15:37 KJV "And Jesus cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost." What? Gave up the ghost. That's where that saying comes from. Even the ASV says that.
The RSV says "And Jesus uttered a loud cry, and breathed his last."
At this point, Jesus died and he was dead. Jesus did not exist anywhere in the universe in any form, as a human or as a spirit. There was No Jesus.
Jesus did not go to paradise that day as he was dead. If he was not dead, what was the purpose of his resurrection?
So since Jesus was dead and not in paradise that guy was dead, when he died and also didn't go to paradise. That was Nisan 14. Jesus was resurrected Nisan 16 Sunday morning, which fulfilled the prophesy.
That guy was not resurrected. He was not in heaven. He was not baptized and he was not anointed with holy spirit. How could he be resurrected to heaven? And the first resurrection would not occur until Jesus became king. Jesus' resurrection was a one off.
Again, what are we talking about? More of Jesus' words that people just don't know what they mean, just as the generation??? The faithful slave???? Baptize in the name of father, son, holy spirit??? etc etc. While Jesus was the great teacher, at that moment, he was not teaching.
simple enough question for a jw to answer, because the org has told them for over 100 years that, .
a) jesus would reign for 1000 years, and.
b) that his reign began in 1914 when he became king.
Same as Noah's. 40 days and 40 nights
i think it was a john cedars video or someone else’s where the point was brought up that only baptised jws will be saved?
then one talk about kids of baptised jws hope they will make it but even them don’t know.
most jws probably think that some good people who are not baptised may make it through, but this is not official teaching?.
They like to use Zeph 2:3
"Seek Jehovah, all you meek ones of the earth, Who observe his righteous decrees. Seek righteousness, seek meekness. Probably you will be concealed on the day of Jehovah’s anger."
It's the only place in the Bible where the word "probably" appears which makes it uncertain here. Seeking Jehovah, being meek, observing his decrees, seeking righteousness and meekness just isn't enough because that's just probably. So you are never on the safe side of the balance.
i think it was a john cedars video or someone else’s where the point was brought up that only baptised jws will be saved?
then one talk about kids of baptised jws hope they will make it but even them don’t know.
most jws probably think that some good people who are not baptised may make it through, but this is not official teaching?.
This is all the carrot on the stick. My dad thinks that only baptized Witnesses or ones studying will be saved. People need to attend meetings and field service. He believes that because that is what he has been told over the years. He has been told that by the ones who are leading the program. This whole belief is just a motivator to make people attend the meetings and be active.
conclusion to harners thesis: https://digilander.libero.it/domingo7/h7.jpg.
in 1973 a scholar by the name of philip b harner published an article in the journal of biblical literature that would be "revolutionary" he concluded that anarthorous predicate nouns preceeding the verb were primarily qualitative in nature.. in my view harner was correct, though he didn't agree with the "a god" rendering he also disliked the "god" rendering in john 1:1c providing an alternative which bibles like the net have paraphrased (to my knowledge).
one he didn't cover in his thesis was john 5:27 i would say this "authoratative" why?
I agree with Harner because the "God" people are not flexible to the possible meanings. And they don't understand the whole Bible and think that words matter.
the watchtower is a manipulator.
one of the tools they use is guilt, and they use it via the "guilt trip.
" just so we are clear, a guilt trip is:.
In the 2023 RC, Symposium "With Patience Put Up with One Another in Love - Infirm or Elderly Family Members Speaker says "When we're a caregiver we might feel guilty. "
